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MHLinux Myths: Busted!
One of the main reasons that most people are afraid to try Linux is because they have this preconceived notion about linux being too hard to use and difficult to maintain; or that they have to do something drastically differ ant and there is a steep learning curve to using linux. After reading most of the comment on this post of mine and other popular forums for new linux users, it only solidified my belief that most non-linux users are very ignorant about linux. So here is an attemp to dispel some of the myths surrounding Linux:
Myth# 1: Linux Installation is difficult.
This is fairly popular Linux myth. Maybe 5 years ago; I would have agreed with you, it’s simply not true anymore. Let’s talk about the most popular linux distro at the moment, Ubuntu. On a brand spanking new computer, if you were to install Ubuntu from scratch, you would basically have to follow that same configuration options like selecting language, keyboard type and username/password, as you would do in a new vista installation. On the upside, there is every reasons to believe that your linux installation will be finished a lot sooner than a windows installation; and there will be less restart, if any.
Myth# 2: I have to know the Linux terminal in order to use Linux.
False. There is absolutely no reason why a regular computer user can’t use linux for years, without having to use the terminal. Windows has CMD (or command.com, or now powershell) just like Linux has the terminal. It is meant for power users or developers to tinker with fine points of linux (or show off to their friends). Windows has a suite of applications that has no graphical front-end for server and system administrators (Windows Sysinternals anyone?), same holds true for Linux. One can also look at Mac OS X; which is based on BSD and has a terminal just like linux. But a Mac user will probably never use one in his lifetime.
Myth# 3: There is no one-click installation in linux. I have to compile everything.
Wrong again. Windows one-click installation is possible thanks to MSI windows installer; and just like linux windows also has it’s fair share of differant installers. In Linux, Debian and RPM installers (or package managers) are the two most widely used linux installers out there. They install applications the same way a windows installer installs an application, minus the step by step configuration. So this one is also busted. :)
Myth# 4: Linux Lack applications.
Just official debian repositories alone has more than 18000 applications. Lack of applications is the least of linux’s problem; just like windows, linux has many applications that performs the same task. You can also use Wine to run windows applications that might not have a suitable alternative for linux. You can find a list of windows applications that can be used with linux using wine; including photoshop CS2 and MS Office 2007.
Myth# 5: Can’t play my movies or use my itunes/ipod.
Wrong and wrong. VLC for linux plays many popular formats including, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4, DivX, mp3, ogg, DVDs, VCDs, HD DVD and various streaming protocols, and with more than 96 million users; you can’t get wrong with that. itunes works fine with wine for linux, if for some reason you can’t get itunes to work you could always use itunes alternatives like Banshee, amaroK and Xine.
These are some of the more common myths surrounding linux, that I know of. I am sure there are many more that I didn’t cover. Personally, I use Vista, Debian/Ubuntu and (more recently) OS X; I love them all. Even though I have a soft corner for linux, it would be unfair for me to try to shove linux down all non-linux users throat. However, users needs to get the right informations so that they can decide whats right for them.
If you liked this article, please share it on del.icio.us, StumbleUpon or Digg. I’d appreciate it. :)
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Those five things are the reason I refused to try any Linux distribution. I’m fairly sure there are still people who think it has no GUI.
Myth# 1: Try on not outdated hardware.. latest mobo or graphics card. I had to use Intrepid Ibex to have a bootable Linux OS
Myth# 2: it doesn’t exist guis for grub, pppoe/networking, virtual cdrom drive, dpkg –confure -a,.. that works well an are fullfeatured “out of the box”.
Myth# 4: Ac3filter? 3d benchmarking? Flash editor? Winfax? PowerCinema?…
Myth# 5: true but mplayer is better.
5 is not a myth, at least when it comes to the iPod touch and iPhone. You can sync music on these devices, but the calendar/contacts/etc. syncing is mac/windows-only (WINE can’t do it, and neither can VMWare, because of how Apple violated the USB protocol).
Also you have a typo: “itnues”.
While i totally agree with the principle of this article the myths aren’t quite as clear cut as made out.
Linux is closer than ever before but its still not suited for the technophobe user.
Myth1: Wireless is a joke, GPU are also tricky
Myth2: Mostly true but often things are hidden away in the GUI when they CLI is right there,
Myth3: This is indeed correct and has improved greatly
Mtyh4: The big problem here is the windows world knows the names of windows applications for things, Who’s heard of gimp, open office or inded thunderbird. Its improving but in the latter cases because they’re windows compatible too,
Myth5: iTunes on Wine…
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iAppId=1347 Bronze with a possible silver.
I’m a software developer, and have been on computers for 20 years, and it still took me a week to get wireless working on my laptop under Linux. Don’t get me started on setting up a 3 monitor desktop with different sized screens.
File system? in windows C: D: etc easily understood and east to type. in linux /dev/hda and /dev/sdb. not so easy to figure out and not easy to type.
File naming conventions. In windows name.xxx where the xxx tells both the OS and me what kind of file it is. In Linux, there is no naming convention. Yes, the OS knows what it is, but I don’t and with nearly a MILLION files on my computer I have a hard enough time searching with the lame windows search.
Easy to install? again maybe for geeks, the sentence “Burn an iso image.” means nothing to a non geek.
Its a great OS, for geeks. Still not ready for prime time. Maybe in a few more years.
And before you condemn me as a non believer, I would actually like to see linux as a viable competitor to MS. It does have some great features. However, easy to use (for the unwashed masses) isn’t one of them.
“Flash editor?”
So that’s a good point? If I’m using linux people can’t even ask me to make anything in the evil some call Flash/ActionScript?
You would be surprised to know that a few people asked me if Microsoft produces Ubuntu and if one can user a mouse in Ubuntu .
Linux fails to control hard drive usage on laptop properly and will eventually allow the HD to KILL itself. XP doesnt!
Dont get me wrong I like Ubuntu and have been running it for quite a while but it has its quirks. I’m running a single core AMD 64 processor and still have not been able to get java working. I tried installing a 32-bit version of Firefox and 32-bit version of java but java applets still don’t work, I’ve given up on it at this point.
I also recently bought a 19″ Samsung widescreen LCD monitor and can’t get it set up right, granted I havn’t played with it as much as I should and I know it’s just a matter of time but it’s a pain. Currently it’s displaying as a square image on the widescreen monitor leaving the black bars on either side of the image.
I tried Ubuntu several times, once out of curiousity, once because I ran out of Windows licenses at home… Mainly a Windows guy, I did not find #1, 2 or 3 a myth, never had a problem and I really enjoyed how easy it was to setup. But like Assente mentioned, new hardware threw me, as did setting up wireless. I spent a few hours looking for answers to setting up wireless on UB’s forums and nothing worked for 3 different adapters. Most of the references mentioned using the terminal but not the commands needed which left me with a paperweight.
Other than that, I think if there is a good intro course to Linux\UB for the general public as far as apps, I think it could be a viable “typical user” OS. Where mainstream people have Itunes, Office, Adobe as brand names that they can identify with. Ask someone what Xine or VLC is and they will shrug. Or even why the need for two apps just to run one(wine for Itunes for example).
It’s getting there, I am sure that one day I will jump back on the Linux bandwagon, maybe once wireless is less taxing on the grey matter!
Myth #6: “But a Mac user will probably never use one in his lifetime.”
Nary a day goes by that I don’t open up a terminal in OS X to mess with something. Mac users aren’t all simpletons that can’t handle using the BSD underneath the glossy OS…
I think the arrogance of most Linux users is what scares non-geeks away from learning more about it!
Linux is a better OS!! :)
I agree 1000%. I got my 12 year old daughter an Asus EEPC preloaded with Ubuntu. She was up and running in less than five minutes having never even seen the Ubuntu GUI before. We set up a dual boot Ubuntu and XP on our desktop machine and even my wife who is some what computer phobic prefers the Ubuntu desktop to the XP version. We are only using XP now to run games and DreamWeaver.
I played with Ubuntu for a while. Then I decided to install FireFox 3. I got completely unstuck trying to install an app.
Why the hell can’t I download a binary and just run it?
the busting of myths 2 and 3 contradict each other. Just the fact there are multiple installers and different packages have different installers and different installers have different programs is just about enough to make someone scream.
And as far as myth 5 goes, just because it can be done doesn’t mean anyone can do it. I would consider myself a power windows user and I playing with linux for a good month trying to get it to sync my iPod anywhere close to as well as iTunes does and Linux just couldn’t get the job done.
Linux does not have a place on the standard home computer, so stop trying.
bben, it’s obvious you’ve never used Linux. You don’t browse drives by their device name any more than you would in Windows. You don’t need a damn file extension to tell you what a file is. It’s all in the bytecode and it’s already thumbnailed and associated for you before you even see it.
Toby, Wireless is not a joke. Broadcom wireless is a joke, almost anything else just works - Intel, Atheros, Prism, ralink…that’s pretty much all the players right there without any intervention.
Assente, applications for all of these exist. Startup Manager for Grub;There are dozens of PPPoE but I’m guessing like a lot of people you’re using PPPoE when your router is already taking care of it; For mounting an iso there are applications but I find nautilus and konqueror context menu options the best - all available at kde-look and gnome-look.
Talking about Winfax? Powercinema? If you can’t figure out the difference between brandnames and functionality then there’s no helping you.
Look guys, no one is asking you to try Linux. If you want to there are plenty of folks who will help you if you need it. This article was about debunking myths and not having you quote your own outdated preconceptions.
Unfortunately while reading this article and reflecting on my own Linux experience, it took me a total of 30 seconds to think why all of these “Busted” myths aren’t busted at all. Keep in mind I did my Ubuntu install about 4 months ago.
Myth #1 - It took me 3 weeks to get Ubuntu to boot. I had brand new equipment (intel quad core, 4 gig ram). Silly me, I was too dumb to know to edit some boot config file and add the “IRQPOLL” parameter. Good thing I spent a few hours on the newsgroups and found some obscure post from someone having a similar problem back in 2006.
Myth #2 - Yeah — try installing NVIDIA’s drivers or Adobe FLASH without using the console. That was a headache and I still never got Adobe Flash to work. Nobody needs that anyway, right? On Windows it was “Next-Next-Finish”.
Myth #3 - One click? You quote different flavors of Linux when it suits you. You started with Ubuntu, but it doesnt ship with either of the package managers you mention. I recall it working ok, but it was not 1 click in all cases.
Myth #4 - Linux does not lack applications. In fact, its filled with hundreds of applications I’ve never heard of, and each has free support when they don’t work if you consider the time you waste trolling newsgroups as “free”. Personally I value my time more.
It would take weeks to figure out which app would best suit my needs. Hopefully the people I work with choose the same apps. One thing to appreciate about Windows is the popularity of certain applications have created workplace standards. Justified or unjustified I know that I can pass a MS-Word file off to others and expect them to be able to use it. I’ve tried Open Office, and while it looks like it does what Office does, it can also corrupt your files so that Office doesn’t like them any more (real experience). That was the Windows version of OO that did that one to me.
Myth #5 - You can’t hardly do any of that with an Ubuntu installation “out-of-the-box”. You have to download an external tool pack (whose name I do not recall — happy hunting!) if you want to access those codecs (other than ogg maybe). Then the OS is no longer “pure” Open Source. For unknown reasons, other linux users will now look down upon you for having done this. If you ask for help with this there will always be the one flamer that says you are lame for wanting to use these non-free codecs and that you should use OGG instead.
“itunes works fine with wine for linux,” - so you are suggesting that the best solution here is to drop windows, load linux, then run a Windows emulation layer in order to listen to music? How is this going to make my life easier?
“… if you can’t get itunes to work you could always use itunes alternatives like Banshee, amaroK and Xine” - um yeah like they connect to the iTunes store to let me download more music. I think not.
My linux experiment was enough for me. However if you have plenty of time on your hands you can spend a few weeks trying to figure out if linux is right for you!
Hi. I’m an IT student and wanted to get Fedora working on my laptop. It’s a joke to say the least in comparison to Windows. It’s sloooooowww. I wanted to use it as Desktop computer. It didn’t work at all. In addition Mozilla Firefox crashed, the system hangs all the time (X-windows) . And I only wanted to use it for browsing the net for the start. It’s not comfy I have to say. I’ve heard the problem is ergonomy - that’s also true, but what would you do if your browser went down and you ended up with nothing at the beginning of using the system. I got an error report 30kb long, I haven’t got time to deal with it for a week (see my predecessor opinion). I’m downloading openSUSE now, we’ll see.
Come on. There’s nothing worse than a self proclaimed ‘Window Power User’ complaining because they can’t do something. Windows does not equal computers. You learned one way of doing things and that does not mean everything else is wrong. Windows was far from being the first operating system and I guarantee you it won’t be the last. What next…”I know everything about cars and I can tell you that motorbikes will never drive on roads!”?
#7 what a load of crap - have you ever even used linux? or are you just parroting falsehoods picked up over the years?
1) /dev/hda (and the likes) is *not* the equivalent to say C:\ on windows - C:\ is the mountpoint in windows, just like, say / is the mountpoint in linux or any other place can be the mountpoint - just like it can in windows (although not many people uses this feature in windows.) Any decent desktop distribution has a file-manager that takes care of those names for you in the first place…
2) linux has the exact same naming conventions as every other OS in the world - in fact, naming conventions has little if anything to do with the parent OS
3) you know you can buy linux on a CD/DVD from shops too? take ubuntu for example, instead of downloading and burning the ISO yourself, you can simply buy it as clearly stated on their page: http://www.ubuntu.com/GetUbuntu/purchase - you can even request a free CD to be sent to you - how many options like that do you have for windows?
4) while we’re on the subject of installing, installing linux on a computer is actually usually far easier than installing windows - take a look at this article as an example: http://practical-tech.com/infrastructure/linux-is-easier-to-install-than-xp/
For linux virgins I can recomend ubuntu wubi.
Easy instal as dual boot (You keep windows)
and take ubuntu for a test drive.
Myth #2 is true if you have non-standard hardware. Which due to the sheer number of Linux-capable hardware platforms out there, most people do.
Don’t kid yourself, if you run Linux as your primary operating system, there will be times when you need to use the command line. Whether it’s to install a new kernel module, to correct an apt-get dist-upgrade gone bad, or because some spiffy cool program you grabbed off Freshmeat doesn’t come with any kind of GUI installer … you *will* need to access the command line once in awhile.
Another case in point: laptops with a broadcom wireless chipset (*many* laptops) require you to either cut the firmware out of the Windows driver so you can use the b43 driver, or you’ll need to run ndiswrapper. Ndiswrapper is easy to install (and it can be done through the GUI), but you’ll find yourself dropping to the command line and cutting and pasting commands into the terminal if you happen to run Ubuntu (some issues with ssb and b43 getting in the way of the ndiswrapper module. Easy to fix, well documented, but requires command-line).
Did that last paragraph scare you? Well, sorry, but that’s what you have to do to get wireless working on an HP 2133 laptop running Ubuntu 8.04.
Is the command line a bad thing? Nope. People shouldn’t fear it. If you’re a Joe-average user, then for the most part you won’t need to touch it and when you do, you will usually be following somebody else’s instructions. Plus, you might learn something or two and go on to a lucrative career in Unix system administration. ;)
But don’t kid yourself. If you run Linux full-time, you *will* use the command line. And that’s a good thing.
iTunes does not work completely through Wine. This is a bummber especially for people who own iPods and iPhones all over. I’m sure the Wine team will eventually catch up… there seems to be advancements on this topic still under development.
Then again… I can’t blame Linux nor Wine for not being able to run iTunes. In fact, Apple is a Unix based operating system. They’re just not willing to compile a version of iTunes for general Linux distros. I won’t be surprised if this is something explicitly negated in their business plan for iTunes and other projects.
Ah well.. I’ve been using Ubuntu for a good while now.. I’ll just wait for the Wine guys to figure it out.
games?
I have Ubuntu, and now KDE installed on my Dad’s laptop.
1. No easy way to download photos from camera and print them.
2. Computer locks up in sleep mode.
3. Voodoo to get the wireless working (much easier in KDE now).
He is still using it, but it can still be easier.
true: i formatted my hard disk with ubuntu
nevermore!!!
GTKpod works perfectly with ipod.
F4L is a neat flash editor.
Dreamlinux is the easiest to install, with just one page to fill in all required feilds like user names, passwords and partitions. Dreamlinux plays all formats out-of-the-box.
For tapping in more system resources for the work you’re doing, you can always switch to a window/desktop manager with a lower footprint, like xfce. Fluxbox uses not more than 3 MB!!
@bben
File system? You *don’t* have to get into /dev/sda1 or /dev/sdb2 to use your disks. Ubuntu mounts (err, shows) your volumes (err, C: and D: drives) right on your Desktop as soon as they are connected. Most of the time you don’t even have to bother with partitions, because the default Ubuntu install takes care of that for you. Heck, my iPod connects and shows up on my Desktop right out of the box! Beat that.
You don’t have to first “Show My Computer on the Desktop” and then double-click “My Computer” and then double-click “C:”. It’s right there on your Desktop staring at your face. How’s that for a “file system”?
Oh, and about naming conventions. The lack of it is a *good thing* even though most files you will use on Linux can have extensions. The permissions model, the file signatures, the fact that your packages are security checked before they are installed on your computer, the fact that the system asks you for your password before allowing you to touch sensitive parts of the system, etc. are exactly the things missing on Windows that make Windows users double-click on “New Folder” icons with hidden .exe extensions to infect their *entire* system.
Searching for files? There’s a tool called “Tracker” on Ubuntu that lets you search within files as well and shows you *good* results in a split second. How’s that for built in “Live Search”?
Easy to install? “Burn an ISO image to disc.” If you don’t know what that is, ask your neighbor. He’s far more intelligent, I’d say. If he isn’t, ask Google lazybum! It takes me 25 minutes to manually finish a *complete* install of Ubuntu with codecs for all my videos, PDF viewers, office applications, good text editors, media players, flash player, sun java 6 runtimes, and all other goodies. How long does that take you on Windows? Don’t tell me you know about creating custom Windows discs and don’t know what “burn an ISO image” means.
Oh, and by the way, installing software on Ubuntu is as easy as choosing all the software you want installed from a list and clicking “Install.” “Uhhuh?” you say. “Beat that”, I say.
Linux is not Windows. It will never be. You, my friend, are trying to compare an orange with an apple–both are fruits. You just need to stop being lazy and get accustomed to it. The Linux and free software community works *very hard* (trust me on that) to make Linux easy for you. When you start using it, you will obviously see problems that perhaps were overlooked by many others. Report them back to the community. This is how free software evolves. Pulling away and hoping for the best is not the kind of response a hard working community expects from the user.
As someone who has used or uses Unix, DOS, Centos, Suse, Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, OSX Tiger & Leopard, Windows 3.1/98(se)/2000/XP/Vista; I have made the following observations:
1) The average user doesn’t like command prompts. It means they have to remember details about commands and think about things in abstract terms.
2) The average user likes to intuit. They want things to be immediately obvious, in your face, no looking around hunting for things, just right there in front of them “do this”. The way I usually tell a power user from an average user: Desktop shortcuts. Unless they’re organized and few extras laying about, chances are you’re an average user.
3) K.I.S.S. Windows upto XP does this. Vista not so much. OSX a bit, not as well, and Linux is no where near there yet.
4) Things need to work. Ubuntu was the smoothest of all the linux distros I worked with, but even with it, at least once every couple days I’d run into something that wouldn’t immediately work and I’d have to troubleshoot. Firefox is the perfect example of how to do it right: Something doesn’t immediately work on the site: Notify the user and point them to exactly what they need to get it working. (ie: plugins)
5) Games. WINE is great, but games are never quite the same through it. Games are what really drive the home market. I’ll never upgrade my system unless it’s for a game or media software. Games aren’t developed for Linux because there’s too many versions taking up such a small portion of the market share. Which leads to my last point:
6) Support. There is none. Sure you can Google if you know about this sort of stuff, but so many “average users” call M$ or take their computer in and spend the money to get common issues solved. Linux doesn’t have that. Linux also doesn’t have good support for developers. MSDN is what made developing for Windows easy. Not that it was easier to develop for Windows (if anything it is harder) but because there is a single, controlled, detailed library of information available to developers. And if something major goes wrong with an app developed for M$ you can call in their specialists. (ie: .NET wasn’t supposed to be able to memory leak… it did of course, caused a server reboot every day due to lack of memory… they came in, diagnosed, hotfixed in under 90 days).
OS X, I don’t know how many people don’t know how to install a program properly. They unpack and mount the dmg file but never get around to properly installing the program. It’s also a pretty crappy interface, a lot of things to learn to recognize that are not intuitive or standardized.
Windows: The start button was genius. Yeah you can customize quick launches, etc, but the core of everything is in 1 button with clear labels for everything you want to access. The average user likes that simplicity. XP’s new bar and Vista’s expansion of that I’m seeing more and more “where is that” questions - but the 98se “classic style” on XP is where it’s at for the average user.
Linux: Yeah you can do some damn cool things, long term it has better potential than the current Windows architecture. But it’s just not intuitive. Even my buddy who is hardcore Linux has to menu search for things he only uses once in a while. Me, with XP, can find what I need in a fraction of the time, no matter how long it’s been since I’ve used it. Exceptions: msconfig, regedit, and manage from My Computer context menu.
Linux is also playing catch up to Windows and has nothing in the works (that I know of) anything like Midori. Once the ties with Multics have been broken… watch out.
JMJimmy
I agree its a lot better than old days. But still when I installed Kubuntu and subsequently Ubuntu I ran into so many problems that I was irritated
- Firefox wont run on kubuntu unless I installed all dependencies. and there was some problem for the system to tell me one single click installation
- Moved on to ubuntu, now sound wont work
- webcam does not work
- external drive wont work
basic things which seamlessly work on windows
@Mark
“6) Support. There is none. Sure you can Google if you know about this sort of stuff, but so many “average users” call M$ or take their computer in and spend the money to get common issues solved. Linux doesn’t have that. Linux also doesn’t have good support for developers. MSDN is what made developing for Windows easy. Not that it was easier to develop for Windows (if anything it is harder) but because there is a single, controlled, detailed library of information available to developers. And if something major goes wrong with an app developed for M$ you can call in their specialists. (ie: .NET wasn’t supposed to be able to memory leak… it did of course, caused a server reboot every day due to lack of memory… they came in, diagnosed, hotfixed in under 90 days).”
What do you call a single distro channel full of 1500 users and developers and several million more on forums that help you with every question you ask? I’d say a “user support community.” Excuse me, but you are definitely kidding me when you say “Linux has no good support for developers.”
I’ve developed for *several* years on both Windows and Linux.
Linux makes development *piss* easy. Python, for example, comes preinstalled with Ubuntu and has introspection capabilities that let you extract documentation embedded right within the code. I don’t even need to be online to read documentation about a function nor do I have to order a XXX $ annual subscription to be able to obtain 9 Gigs of documentation when I’m searching for that one particular API function.
Ah, about the topic of online documentation. Ubuntu Linux comes with documentation packages for *most* if not all of the developer libraries that come with it. You just need to dig deeper, Luke. Also, use the source. What better way to write good code than learn from some or even better reuse some? By the way, Ubuntu has DevHelp if you prefer MSDN-style compiled searchable documentation in one window.
“Linux is playing catching up to Windows.”? Dude, you’ve got to be seriously kidding me now. Linux is *way* ahead of Windows in every department except, I’ll honestly admit, gaming. Perhaps, your buddy that still searches through the menu to use applications he uses once in a while hasn’t yet come across indexed search, google desktop search, or just plain gnome do.
“[Microsoft developers] came in, diagnosed, and Hotfixed in under 90 days.” Thanks! Linux developers and power users fix problems in minutes or even seconds in some cases. ;-)
For the usability part. I can view my *entire* Desktop in different languages (yes, that includes all the programs I use that have been translated by so many beautiful contributors around the globe). My entire family has switched to Linux because “it’s easier-to-use.” Of course, they need my help from time-to-time, just like they did when they used Windows. ;-)
Cheers!
@Apurva
Not all hardware vendors like to support Linux because quite a lot of them think “Linux has a very tiny marketshare.”
It’s like this. Linux wants to support all your hardware, but your hardware vendors refuse to reciprocate the same feelings.
Give your hardware vendor a tight hug and ask him for this one favor.
“Support Linux.”
Anyway, if you’re still stuck using Ubuntu, send me a message at yesudeep AT gmail DOT com and I’d be glad to help you out with your problems.
The lack of a file system is a good thing, just try making an .htaccess file the way it “should” be done in Windows, No, you have to go through tons of extra steps just to make it so it allows you to have the dot at the beginning.
Tried WUBI on my Compaq Presario 3100… everything works great, didn’t mess up my XP Home installation (so far, fingers crossed), but I can’t for the life of me get my wireless working. Maybe it’s just not meant to be?
I have, on way too many occasions, got hard disks coming into my lab to recover data. Many times Windows has failed to read its own file system! Ntfs-3g on Linux, OTOH, has saved my friends and clients too many hours of headaches.
You know, according to the latest study, the total time required for a Windows system to be 0wn3d (owned) after going online is approximately 4 minutes. 4 minutes! And you’re still using Windows? Google this.
Where I work on developing software (even Windows software), we don’t trust Windows machines simply because they have proven unreliable time and again. We’re just tired of dealing with all the problems a developer faces on Windows. We’ve moved on to running Windows inside virtual machines simply because we can restore a virtual disk from a copy image of the entire installation in seconds without having to go through several reinstall and reboot cycles.
Heck, we even build executables and installers for Windows *on Linux*, just to ensure that we don’t pack viruses accidentally into generated executables that will be distributed.
I’ve been using Linux for about a decade now. When I started as a newbie, I faced many problems adjusting to a new environment just like you guys that are new to Linux do. I gave up a few times, but thankfully, I got myself up and running with Linux. Google helped a lot. Forums, IRC, mailing lists, groups, archives, etc. helped a ton too.
I was lazy once. Now I’m lazier, have a lot more patience (no matter how odd that sounds), and am more productive than ever before. I Google and I Linux. So should you. ;-)
Cheers!
#27 Phil,
Have you tried “digikam” ?
Has the most fancy image denoising algorithm i’ve seen
Also google picasa is available on linux now but its slower than digikam but works nicely
@dude
Try joining the official Ubuntu IRC channel.
server: irc.ubuntu.com
channel: #ubuntu
Ask your questions there. That’s support right there.
Anybody installed latest Fedora(”catching up with latest developments in Linux world and being a STABLE distro at the same time” - that’s just bullshit!)? I can’t belive no one cares about the fact how many it crashes and how slow it is some times.
People WAKE UP! Linux is don by so many people that no one has control over it, or it seems like it.
Anybody tried latest Fedora as Desktop? I think it’s awful. What elsecan you recommend, openSUSE or what??
All five of these reasons are not nearly as true as the write thinks they are.
5 linux realities:
5- Wine is not 100% perfect yet
4- Avisynth, MeGUI for linux
3- uTorrent for linux
2- Media Player Classic for linux with hardware acceleration of video decoding on modern graphics cards (i.e.,VC-1 and h264
1- Games Games Games
I just bought a new computer a few weeks ago and, because I have balls, I decided to buy a copy of Vista 64 bit. After the initial install, I spent about an hour trying to get my wireless card to work and maybe another half hour installing other drivers. Just yesterday, I installed Kubuntu - my first time using it - and, to my surprise, everything worked after the initial install, which was about half as long as Vistas. I admit, I spent about 20 min trying to get my graphics card (hd4850) to work, but for an OS I’ve never used before, I’d say that’s pretty good; and I never had to use the command line once. I found the codecs for mp3s, dvds, etc fairly quickly, again, without using the command line. In conclusion, the hardware support for Kubunu was better than Vistas and the installation was much faster. By the way, amarok is a lot better than iTunes.
Well Myth #1 is not 100% true.
I installed XP on an Asus mini-PC. It took about 1.5 hours to install Windows and all updates (~100) and service packs (1). It also took 3 re-boots to complete the install.
I installed Ubuntu on the same box, it took 1.5 hours to install the OS and the updates (~125) and took 4 reboots.
Linux was much easier to install than I thought it would be, but was comperable to Windows.
My major beef with Linux is the stupid file permissions. I installed Nagios to monitor some devices on my network and I wanted to change the .wav file that played when there was an alert. Once I found the file that contained the line of text to change the .wav file (that was a chore in its self) I simply placed the .wav file into the same directory. But it wouldn’t work, because the permissions were wrong on the file. Oh silly me! Why didn’t I think I had to type chmod 666 filename.wav!
I read a great quote once and I still stand by it: “Linux is only free if your time is worthless…”
I am a developer and have been developing for Linux based embedded devices for over 5 years. For the average user who simply wants email, a browser, and to watch some videos, Linux is substantial, however I have a problem with some of the things mentioned in the list. Specifically #4 and #5… #5 has been debunked already…
For my desktop (home) computer though, there is no other choice than Max OS X, and here are the reasons:
1) Prosumer/High-End audio IO devices: I currently use a MOTU 828MK2. Where is Linux support for Firewire audio devices? Where are high-end audio applications, like Logic, Reaktor, ProTools? In general, there are very few professional applications which run on Linux.
2) Aperture: I take tons of photos. I have yet to find another photo management/editor that makes it less of a chore to manage large amounts of photos, and supports RAW.
3) Photoshop/Illustrator: These are part of my workflow (i.e., clients send me CS3 documents - I need to send clients CS3 documents). Can you claim that Gimp supports all the features of the CS3?
4) Quick and dirty video editing: Plug in your firewire camera, grab a few scenes, make a few cuts… you are ready to go.
Hehe man I love fanboys.
I wouldn’t say I’m the most hardcore of computer users but I can run most OS’s and I dabble in several programming languages including C. Linux, specifically Ubuntu, is still a minefield for the average user. I invite you to install ubuntu on an average pc and not touch the command line. I have a fairly common netgear wireless adapter. I had to find, compile and install the right driver. Then it didn’t work because my particular RF chipset isn’t supported. Then my graphics card, again a fairly typical nVidida card, had basically the same problem. If I didn’t have any programming knowledge I’d have been lost and given up a long time before I did.
Face it linux will not be anywhere near mainstream for at least 10 years.
A lot of Linux criticism from a lot of people who admit they don’t know much about Linux. Hmmmm, do you think maybe the original article is, in fact, exactly right and these folks are laboring under these myths?
As my Magic 8-Ball says, “It’s most decidedly so.”
I’ve been trying for two years to get Office 2007 to work even half-well on
all of my ubuntu distributions to no avail. To the poster of the article? Have
you successfully installed Office2K7?
Ubuntu - I couldn’t set-up dialup without using the Linux Terminal. My Netgear wireless USB is still not working. I’ve done three upgrades and each time I needed to fix things using the Linux Terminal (I lost my swap space during the upgrade). I can’t throw out Windows until the upgrading, internet and hardware issues are resolved, because I need to go online in Windows to find out how to fix these problems in Linux. A non-enthusiast just would not bother.
And so the battle continues…
Let’s be honest with ourselves and accept the fact that none of the leading operating systems have nailed it. Choosing one or the other should really be based on matching the right tool with the right job. As a gamer, software developer and general enthusiast of all things technical I recognize and account for the strengths and weaknesses that each OS has. They all have a place in my home.
You won’t find me trying to play the latest games on a Linux installation simply due to the fact that Windows has overwhelming support and acceptance from game developers and graphics card vendors. You are kidding yourself if you think that Nvidia or ATI (AMD) have dedicated even a fraction of their time to development and QA towards a Linux driver as they have for a Windows driver. Same goes for the game developers. The only games I’d even consider trying trying to play on Linux would be of the Minesweeper variety.
Primarily being a Java developer, choosing a Ubuntu type Linux distro would be perfectly acceptable for every day work tasks. I can’t think of a single tool that I develop with (in terms of Java) that would not happily run on Linux. Eclipse IDE, NetBeans, etc. It’s all good. That being said, I also do some .NET development in Visual Studio. So for me, Windows becomes the natural OS of choice at work.
What if you have an extra PC or laptop lying around that you would like to use for simple tasks such as web browsing and checking email? Ubuntu like distros would be perfectly fine. Better yet, you wouldn’t have to pay for a new Windows license. Sounds good to me! Furthermore, I can and have slapped such an environment onto a bootable USB flash drive using Puppy Linux. That handy distro alone restored life to what I thought were useless and obsolete PCs in my house.
Want to run a server of some kind? Again, any OS can do the job, but I would strongly lean towards a Linux distribution minus the GUI nice-to-haves. Linux is known for its superior long term stability and security. I personally have had no issues with Windows Server doing the job either. Having worked for many start ups however, cost is an issue, and Linux is free!
So in a futile effort to squash the ongoing battle, take each OS for what it’s worth. Not a single OS is as bad or as good as you want to make it out to be. Be thankful you have a choice!
I would say two should not be busted, its true, in any linux OS odds are good you will run into a problem that is easily fixed with the command line. It may seem intimidating at first, but truthfully the “Copy and paste these three lines” is a lot easier than right click on properties, go to the administration tab, click the advanced button, go to the properties tab in the new window, right click on this, open that new window, click these three ratio boxes. etc etc”
Unlike OSX Which was built from the interface down, linux’s GUI is really just an interface for interacting with command based programs. Not everything is there, and quite a few things are easier to do on linux.
Its not a myth, its true, but its not terrible, the important thing is just because its a terminal shouldn’t make it scary, it really makes remote troubleshooting and repair a breeze.
Firstly, let me say that I’m sure that since this article hit Digg, all the Windows and Mac fanboys who decided to flame it are going to continue to do so for the next two to three days. To the rest of you, I just adopted Kubuntu about 2 hours ago, no lie. I’m running Firefox 3 perfectly. I don’t know where everything is but in the past two hours, I’m learned a hell of a lot. The key is being patient and realizing that this is NOT WINDOWS and it is NOT MAC. This is the part where you try something new. If you don’t feel like learning something new, stick with what you know, no one is going to judge you for it.
For those of us who are new to Linux or for people who are thinking about trying it out, don’t discourage them because you tried it for 2 days and hated it, let them try it for themselves. You wouldn’t tell people a movie sucked because you didn’t like the preview, would you?
And as for those of you who complain about how it doesn’t work with the latest and greatest hardware, you’re probably right. But think about this, Linux is open-source and hardware is proprietary, so what makes you think that a bunch of people who have to wait for new hardware, just like you and me, have some kind of clairvoyant ability to write code about hardware that they’ve never used? Not to mention that most of these people also have jobs and families that they have to take care of. They’re doing this because they believe that they’re making the world a better place for computer users. And as anyone who’s ever done volunteer work would tell you, it doesn’t pay. If you want a bunch of people who are going to pander to your every whim, stick with Microsoft and Apple. Their products do have merit, but don’t discount their hard work because you loaded Ubuntu and couldn’t find the Start button or IE. Like I said, this is something new. You should be excited, like a kid on Christmas, not all pissy that everything didn’t work perfectly right away.
And Gemet, I’m an IT student too, but the difference between us is that I’ve actually read about the history of Linux, I talked to people who’ve used it for years, and I’m not expecting everything to work 100% of the time right away. I know that I have to learn about bash and package managers and 100 other things Windows and Mac don’t have. And I’m okay with it.
more like, how the hell do you get your wireless internet card to work…
A pretty disgusting example of Lying Linux Self Indulgent Filth. These are all suspect, but I will focus on Number 2. You DO need to use the terminal for manual installs of software, or when trying to fix a problem. Case in point. The SDLMame INI file can’t be edited, the file isn’t owned by me. I MUST use the command CHOWN to be able to edit to file and fix the configuration problem. With Windows, ownership and permissions can be changed with mouse clicks.
my main concerns with linux is hardware - its awesome for people who can install it and have everything detected and working out of the box - if you have a laptop with hardware not generally supported by linux - good luck.
last time i installed ubuntu on my old compaq lappy i had one hell of a time finding a way to get wireless to work - it had a broadcom chipset (airforce or something like that) - it was not a fun experience getting that working…
also, hardware support is not there yet - i don’t care what anyone tries to say. installing a driver on windows is 1000 times easier than in linux - not to mention that there is still a huge lack of support by hardware vendors for linux (thats not a diss on linux, just a fact - if you go out and buy a new printer, or scanner or whatever - you know it will work with windows, you will find a driver, there will be updated drivers etc.) - with linux, you pretty much have to research an item to make sure it is supported or find out if the manufacturer supplies a driver before buying something…
until linux gets better (and easier) hardware support it will not be as widely used and accepted as windows or mac.
My first experience with linux (Mandrake 9) scared me away from linux for 3 years after it formatted, instead of resizing, my NTFS windows partition (with no warning). 7 years later, and Ubuntu Hardy is the main OS on my laptop. The Broadcom wireless that was so hard to get working just 12 months ago works perfectly with 5 minutes of setup, the headphone socket that didn’t work properly now is flawlessly.
The hardware support in linux is simply amazing. As an example, I reinstalled both windows and linux last week. To get just the OS and drivers installed and updated in Windows took 2.5 hours and about 4 reboots. In Linux it took 30 minutes and 1 reboot.
A year ago my sister needed a PC for study but all I had was an old Pentium II 400MHz. I installed Ubuntu and set up a user account for her. She never asked me a single question about how to use it. One year later and she has a new PC with Windows. She regularly has to ask me how to change the screen resolution or desktop background… Which is easier to use for the average user? To me it seems Ubuntu’s gnome desktop wins
Well, I’m a pretty experienced user - having been a software developer for the last 20 years. It may have it’s features, but Linux is a _long_ way from being as easy to use and work with as either Windows (even back to Windows 3.1 - and all the way through Vista now), or a Mac.
When a software developer (i.e., a very technical person) has a hard time figuring stuff out - it can’t be reasonable for a common human to use it without finding it absolutely impossible.
Some examples:
1) Try to setup Linux (any current flavor I’ve found has the same issues) on a Laptop/Notebook with a Broadcom Wireless card, and an Nvidia graphics processor. A “normal” person will become discouraged very quickly. (BTW, on Vista, and XP - it just “worked” out of the box.)
2) Try to configure dual-monitor display on any of the current crop of Linux solutions (then do it without having to install a bunch of ‘extra’ software through some cryptic naming scheme in any one of a half-dozen “packaging” tools)… What are the odds you’ll have directly edit xorg.conf? (Oh, and you’ll have to be ‘root’ for that!) Now set it up on Windows - oh, wait - I plugged it in and it works.
3) Now try to configure a port replicator/docking station for your laptop (oh, wait - you’ll have to install a bunch of new stuff to get that all configured as well). Doh!, when I dock in Windows - it works without doing anything.
You Linux bigots can sit there and whine and gripe about how all these “myths” about Linux being hard to install are “busted”, but you’re just kidding yourselves. Essentially what you’re saying is: “if you know what you are doing - like I do - you won’t have any problems.” But I’m pretty good at getting stuff figured out - and I actually have been able to get it running for most of my problems - but to call it “easy” is a farce. I could just see my wife (who is _not_ technical) trying to handle Linux vs. her WinXP system. She would just stop using the computer all together.
For the record, I have installed (and made work) the following Linux implementations in the last 2 months:
1) Ubuntu Hardy (last week)
2) Fedora Core 9 (this week)
3) OpenSUSE 11 (both the RC1 and the release patch)
4) Mandriva Spring 2008
5) A couple of ‘less mainstream’ versions - none of which were stable (crashed frequently - even after I got the bulk of things configured)
Problems I’ve had:
1) Broadcom Wireless - learned to us fwcutter - working now
2) Broadcom Wireless - learned to use NDISWrapper (had it working, but it was unstable)
3) NVIDIA Quadro 135NV video card (Fedora is giving me fits getting the Nvidia supplied driver, but the base driver seems to work for 1 monitor)
4) NVIDIA Q135… fails on Ubuntu Hardy for dual-monitor setup from my port replicator (it won’t display on the DVI port, but the VGA port works - and it keeps trying to turn on my laptop display)
5) Fedora keeps throwing “update manager” errors - complaining about a man-pages package (that I didn’t intentionally install) that is missing a dependency. (It doesn’t provide a suggestion as to how to resolve the error, but all updates fail, unless I search through the updates list to find a package that matches the named “man-pages-…” package - works for a ‘one-time’ thing, but gets really annoying after that.0
6) GRUB - displays a new (and successively more cryptic) boot option each time I install something (I’m assuming it’s building a new kernel, and the cryptography is a kernel version - but come on guys - “normal people” don’t need to see that crap!)
7) Try to find “themes” and “fonts” on some of the various “package” managers - it’s virtually impossible to decipher what you would be getting if you installed it.
8) Who came up with the applications menus for these window managers? They have some of the most bizarro organization schemes I’ve ever seen. And I haven’t seen any tool that let’s me reorganize them in a fashion I want. (Wait, don’ tell - just edit “sadjhfskfjsd.conf” file!)
The end result is that if a _competent_ computer user has a hard time figuring out your system for a fairly standard computer (modern even - 2.2Ghz Core2 Duo, 4GB RAM, etc.), what are the odds that a “normal” person would even consider it? You can sit a proclaim that all the problems of the world are solved by Linux, but until you make it so ‘normal’ people can sit down and use it without having to search through a hundred forums and hack cryptic ‘conf’ files, it isn’t going to be a mainstream system. Apple will continue to accelerate their gains over Windows - but “Linux” will always be 3rd-best.
Lets be real, the myths are busted, but this is irrelevant outside the tech adept circles.
Most folks expect the PC to be an appliance, not an errector set.
A solution is hardware based plug and boot.
Till we can walk into a major electronics shop and select from a variety of Linux pre-loaded PCs with names like HP, Toshiba, Sony - Linux is going nowhere in the mainstream.
… unless it no longer requires a preload.
1) No flash support out of the box — and by Flash, I mean ADOBE flash (something that works 100% of the time)
2)Installs that reliably don’t need the terminal… YDL really sucked on that one (enlightenment? give me a break!)
3)No DVD play out of the box… heaven help trying to download a movie codec, figuring out which version… what RPM, whats GZ or whatever…
4)Wow… my Nvidia 8800 GTS… forget about it… the screen would have fit on a 8000×6000 monitor, perhaps… otherwise the font was about six inches tall…
I have Yellow Dog loaded on my PS3 for my 61″ Samsung HDTV… but only because I have to…it still won’t play DVDs back, and I’m tired of trying. If WinXP could be loaded on the PS3, ya bet it would be!
Cheers,
Doc
I had absolutely no problem setting up a ubuntu gutsy/windows dual boot on an old amd pc with 512 memory. It is a little tricky finding all the right packages, but I have the system working better than windows– real adobe flash, full browser functionality to play video and sound, dvd/cd and multiple video format playback, LAMP, evolution synch-up with gmail and hotmail, and an eclipse development environment to a cvs repository. It does require some research and the ability to follow/interpret directions to complete the setup. The only issues I’ve had are that compiz and apple-style docking consume too much processing power on my machine, so I had to turn those features off. But all in all, linux has come a long way in the past 5 years, and ubuntu is the best distribution. I love the ease with which you can upgrade from one release to the next.
I run ubuntu on my laptop - its been fun setting it up, but have to admit there were challenges. I’ve worked in IT for a long time, and found it easy to get help when I needed it - but my mom couldn’t do this. Really like the CD version to let you test it out before installing it.
However, there are computer shops literally full of windwos computers being repaired because the average person can’t fix them - Windows is not perfect by any means.
For mom Windows is great. For me I like the bootup and shut down of Linux enough to make me fight through the hard parts. Not sure it is ready for everyone though.
My 2 cents.
Well, after reading this I have to say, Linux is not windows, so don’t expect it to be like windows. There are many reasons not to use one or the other.
As for support, there are Linux distributions that do have paid support.
It’s not the fault of Linux that ipods or whatever don’t sync well, it’s Apple’s choice not to program for all Operating systems. The only reason they work on Windows, is because Windows has the majority of the market share, Apple’s wouldn’t do nearly as well if they didn’t support Windows. As for me I buy my online music elsewhere, it’s not that hard, and i certainly know I’m not really missing anything.
Nowadays you can buy desktops/laptops with Linux preloaded, so all the installation hassles (not that’s difficult) is a non-issue. You can purchase Linux distributions that have all that’s necessary to play DVD’s or whatever. The choices are out there. What many seem to forget is that Linux is just the kernel, not the whole. So when people make comparisons it would be nice to actually know what distribution they are using, ’cause there is 100’s of choices.
If you’re buy a Mac, do you expect all Windows software to work on it? Didn’t think so. So why do people expect it on Linux?
If the user doesn’t bother to read instructions, then that’s their problem. Can’t blame it all on the operating system. Computers are by their very nature, complex, I assume the same people that took years to learn how to program their VCR’s (if at all) are the same that expect to have their computer’s know what they are thinking.
I think there is just a lot of fear of change. If you want to be locked into Microsoft or Apple products and have to continually lease their software, for the rest of your life,that’s fine with me, I just think my money can be better spent elsewhere, and I can always choose to support Linux in any number of ways, whether it be by donating money, helping other users, programming, documentation, graphics, etc. etc.
Well sorry for the rambling on, just had to get this off my chest.
Good day all!
Forgot to say, I also have IP telephone and ipod synch working on ubuntu without effort as well as file and printer sharing with the wife and kids windows PCs and it works more reliably than some of the wacky windows networking sharing experiences I\’ve had.
“as you would do in a new vista installation”
that sounds like reason number 1 why I wouldn’t try installing Linux…I sure wouldn’t try installing Vista either.
Nothing against Linux…I run Vista Ultimate but it came pre-installed and I certainly wouldn’t have tried to install it myself. I’m not techie but I’ve been using computers from back around DOS 6.0 or maybe a bit before that; even worked on a few back in the mid-80s that didn’t even run DOS (Kaypro or K-Pro…something like that was one I faintly recall). I’ve met at least two people running Linux…one has a tough time…couldn’t run my jump drive in his machine after an hour of doing everything his Linux expert told him to do over the phone. No thx.
Ok. All windows losers. Learn something about linux before you just dive in. I can’t stress this enough how much people don’t do this. If you don’t do some reading up and learning before you try linux, chances are you’ll get scared away because you found out it wasn’t windows and you couldn’t do very advanced things with it. It’s just like failing an exam you never studied for and wonder why you failed.
Whether anybody likes it or not. All of these linux myths have been busted. Clearly all the people who have had trouble with linux didn’t do enough rtfm or use google very well to find the solutions to the most common linux problems. And of course linux is not windows, why do windows users panic when c:\ is represented as /mnt/hda in linux? Who cares, you found your hard drive, access it and you’ll find your files. There’s a slew of things different in linux, but linux, osx and windows have a lot of obvious commonalities such as the desktop environments, especially applications.
Here’s the worst thing in the world. Windows users don’t want to learn how to use linux. Windows users are lazy. I’m not surprised if a windows user gets intrigued by linux, then turns away because his c:\ drive is called /mnt/hda. Windows users can’t deal with change. One lesson you see is that people have such a hard time using vista and it’s really not that much of a change over xp.
I do mean to be arrogant with this post because windows users are going to be left behind when new technologies come out in the future. I bet even when 3 versions of windows past vista in the future people will still be complaining how the new version of windows still isn’t xp. This is why a person who knows how to use linux is a power user and that why anybody who uses only windows is never going to be a power user, let alone a very smart user.
After my experiences with Linux every couple of years, once you set it up perfectly and only do those things, it is great. I would use it in a heartbeat as an appliance (something it shines at).
As far as general computing goes for the “average” home user, I would look elsewhere. Its a good hobbiest OS for the curious and power users, beyond that, I don’t see any reason why I would ever give this to my parents.
Mom’s had her Windows XP PC running for 5 years now without ever getting a virus or malware. I set it up for her and she has never had any problems, of course she does not push the limits of the machine. If my mother ever had to touch a command prompt she would shut the thing off an never use it.
Someone above said “give linux another 10 years and it will be ready for the desktop”, however I recall thinking this when I first started using slackware in college 10 years ago. At this rate I think its place in our world is well defined — great dedicated appliance, embedded OS or power users/hobbiest desktop. Beyond that Windows and Mac shouldnt be too concerned about market share.
@67 Reformed Ubuntu User
Who cares about market share. Linux doesn’t require the use of console just as much as windows doesn’t require the use of it’s own console. As far as setting up linux perfectly to be an os for doing just a couple of things is one thing that linux is saught out for. Linux for mobile products like umpc’s and cell phones just as an example.
However, you don’t have to set it up perfectly. I guess compared to your moms computer it’s not set up perfectly since she has windows? Let me guess, she plays spider solitaire, uses a word processor, and occasionally does more on the web than check her email? Linux is perfectly suited to these tasks as well. And why not do those tasks for free instead of paying over $70 for it? I also didn’t say linux was only for power users. I said those who only use windows are never going to be power users. Linux is an os for everybody. Linux is great for the super system tweaker as well as those who just want to surf the net and use a word processor. So, i’d definitely get linux for the average home user. Linux also has much better safeguards in position to protect the user from utterly destroying their system compared to windows and osx. You want to do something administrative in linux? you got to put in the root password. If you want to do something administrative in windows or osx, chances are most users already have admin privileges so they can screw up their own system by tweaking stuff…changing stuff and not know what they’re doing at the same time.
And just because your mom’s computer hasn’t gotten any kind of malware (virus, trojan, adware, worm) yet. Doesn’t mean that it cant get them. Get a firewall and antivirus for it or you’ll feel pretty dumb in the future when she may get hacked or get malware.
Linux does not of course require 10 years from now to be ready for the desktop since it’s all good to go on the desktop as of 2 years ago. Linux has defined itself in mobile products as well as servers. Linux has also defined itself on the desktop for the average linux user. As well as in other countries where there’s netcafe’s, you can very well expect to see linux on many netcafe computers since linux is very ready for the desktop, and it keeps you from having to pay for multiple and expensive windows licenses. You can also bet that many companies use linux on a good deal of their computers for various uses because it’s just as usable and saves money. In the meantime yes apple and microsoft need not worry too much about market share, they’re still very dominant. The only thing linux has a real hard time with, is running windows games, linux’s windows compatibility layer is pretty good, but not that good.
Anyway 67 Reformed Ubuntu User. My how you are not a reformed ubuntu user. Even how this article dispells myths, people will still follow them. On and on people will continue to be dumb because it’s fun for them, even when they get proven with the evidence right in front of them. They just get angry for a bit and continue on with their skewed perspective of how something is not. If you were such a reformed ubuntu user. You wouldn’t have written the post the way you did.
Try kubuntu, you’ll find it more familiar than gnome ubuntu, since straight up ubuntu wasn’t straight forward enough for you. I don’t see how a straight up ubuntu install is difficult to use at all. Most users do one of two things with linux. They just start using it and don’t care what it is, and they’re just fine with it. The others start using it and know where the basic start menu like thing is, and the obvious minimize, close, and maximize buttons are, but they panic anyway because it’s not windows, even despite it being windows like enough for them to be able to use it in the first place. Well, there is a third thing that happens, a system tweaker starts dual booting with win and lin on the same drive, and then gets rid of win. Sells copy of win to somebody who needed it and make back 100$ on xp home (3 years ago when xp home was that much).
Umm…people aren’t afraid to use Linux. People don’t want to use Linux.
That’s why nobody except a handful of people use it. People can do what they need to do on the OS they have.
All that articles like this amount to is “Linux is playing catch up to Windows and Mac OS, and can do *most* things they can do *almost* as simply”.
YAY! That <1% Linux market share is going to explode!
I have been developing linux (yes, developing it, *not* on it) for sometime now, and I avoid the GUI unless it is for firefox. I’ve Fedora setup on my laptop, wireless works out of the box (yes it does) and it has the atheros car. The only thing that is a pain is graphics, but I really don’t need it. But if you do, with some additional tinkering, you can get it working too. Here is the good news, you do *NOT* need the command line for that. You can install an RPM from the GUI. And use the GUI to get yum which will handle all dependencies and download the drivers. It is the same as with windows where hardware has not worked and you needed to install a driver.
I keep reading about chmod issues. Has anyone ever bothered to see the properties of a file in the browser windows. Admittedly if you do not own the file, the command line is the fastest way to change the ownership, but you can do it from the GUI as well.
Support. With microsoft, your only hope would be that you are important enough for them to fix your problem ASAP. (And 90 days is *not* fast). The beauty of Linux is that you can fix your problem yourself or pay someone to do it (I bet you did not think of that one right, its free, so I should get support free.) Remember, someone is investing their time to fix your problem. It is *not* free. Having said that, every bug reported is important, and has to be fixed asap is the policy for most open source projects. And they are tracked openly, so you know how close your problem is to a solution.
Time. You have to invest time in customizing your system. Nothing wrong about that. You do that for windows as well. If you are under the impression that windows does not require it, I would ask you to go back and try again.
Folks requiring specific applications, go back to your vendor and bug them to release a Linux version. It is not the prerogative of a Linux developer to get windows applications working on Linux.
And for those talking about hardware support. Linux supports the maximum hardware. It is graphics/wireless which had been a pain point. But with the vendors putting in persons to work on it, things are improving. And writing good drivers can be done by 1 person as well. No need for a team of 100s who write drivers which crash windows.
And the clincher, Windows always always crashes for me whenever I boot into it. I can never figure out why. Linux rarely does, and when it does, at least I can figure why it has. Why should I use windows then?
Can anyone remember using a keyboard, black and white TV and a cassette tape(120min) for a hard drive. All these comparisons of difficulty and ease of use do not seem to matter much when you take in the word Freedom. I assume all of us are free to use what we please in our daily lives. Myself. I like them all, it’s a challenge when something doesn’t work and a feeling of satisfaction when I get it right. We all have our preferences, that’s as it should be. Wouldn’t we all be better served to work together for all concerned. Can anyone imagine what could be achieved. This is only my humble opinion.
I bought a brand new dell vostro 1500 laptop with integrated webcam and all the bells and whistles available. As soon as I got it I wiped XP off and installed Ubuntu Hardy Heron and never looked back. I have used Linux for a few years in the server environment but this is my first desktop attempt and I love it. I have a docking station at work and home, my camera worked straight away, my nvidia card works flawlessly straight away. I have VirtualBox setup running an XP guest for Outlook and Photoshop which uses bridged networking and allows me to share files between the OS’s easily.
Linux is an amazing operating system, and even though it MAY take some tinkering to get right, thats what computing is all about. Too many people these days just “plug it in” and if it doesnt work they complain and give up.
What a crock.
Myth 3 is NOT a myth. It’s true.
DO installers exist for Linux? Yes. Are they “one click” or “just like windows” and “easy to use?” HELL NO.
I use ubuntu, and downloading a linux application and double clicking it, more often than not, does NOT install it.
Get real and be honest. You have to know how to set crap like that up, it’s not something you can throw at your grandma and expect her to figure it out, or even your standard windows user. Linux still has a fairly large learning curve if you want to replace your current OS with it, and making up BS reasons why that’s not true is still BS.
You don’t need VLC to play all the different types of media. Just use Linux Mint, it has all the codecs built in.
http://www.linuxmint.com
To Sean (#74) If you are using Ubuntu you RARELY need to Download a Linux application and double click it, try using Synaptic which in lots of cases kicks the shit out of any Windows installer.
#3 is definetly a myth, the point he is trying to make is that nobody has to COMPILE anything like we used to..
E.g try installing Apache,Mysql, PHP on windows, then try it using apt-get and report back which one is easier/faster.
I always love these articles written by Linux gurus for their own type
articles like these are devoid of reality
sure windows is limited but people who try linux find themselves like the seniors who cannot understand windows
lol
Myth #2: “Mac users don’t use the terminal.”
Absolutely false. I’m mainly a Mac user, and I use the it daily. This is quite a generalization to make, and a completely erroneous one at that. Please don’t make unsupported claims.
Ok so I dual booted Ubuntu about a year ago because I saw an amazing youtube video about something called Beryl. “OMG IT WAS AMAZING”, I thought so I had to have it. Setting it up was very difficult and I had trouble getting my games and other programs to work, so I went back to Windows (left the ubuntu partition on the hdd though).
When Hardy Heron came out, I decided to wander back over to the the dark side and try out Ubuntu again. The change was HUGE! Everything seemed much easier to use and I got World of Warcraft set up in about 10 minutes (not including the lengthy copying of files from eight discs… yuck!) by following a very basic STEP BY STEP guide on the wine appdb. You don’t have to be a genius to get something set up to work with wine. A monkey that can copy and paste a few lines from a website could do it. Sure it might be one extra step but guess what… IT’S A FREE OPERATING SYSTEM THAT IS SAFE AND HAS FREQUENT UPDATES! I think since I went back to Ubuntu, I have used the terminal once. That one time was to edit my menu.lst file to make Ubuntu my default OS and I have never needed to use terminal since.
(Oh and by the way, I finally got all that eye candy set up that dragged me over to Ubuntu in the first place. It now comes with Ubuntu and uses much less of your system’s resources than Vista)
Those here who have complained about wifi should give ubuntu a try. It is a no brainer, even with WEP or WPA.
I agree with the list, but one thing is not a myth:
When something doesn’t work, only 33% chance you’ll find the solution in the provided documents. For new Linux users, there’s less than 10% that they will find it.
you’re all idiots.
linux is simple to use
ubuntu is a joke and tries to make whats already simple easy to use for morons and does a bad job of it
slackware is the way to go its easy to install easy to use and easy to maintain
it does everything you need it to do i can watch movies play games do office suite things run a webserver or a pvr or a firewall or a router whatever it doesnt matter
i’ve had 3 completely different webcams all of which worked with no issues as well as several digital cameras printers scanners mp3 players sd cards ir remotes
i’ve done it all and i learned all of this stuff on my own
it comes down to this, if you have a brain then you use linux, if you’re a moron and dont have a clue about software then you use a competitor to linux
anyone who says differently is a corporate sell-out who needs a lobotomy and a swift kick in the ass and most likely already has an iq lower than 37
@ 81, this is why i tell everyone that google is their friend. Which effectively means, use more effort when at searching the web for a solution. I solve most of my problems from the ubuntu forums rather than the ubuntu documentation.
@ 74 Sean. I guess you haven’t noticed that ubuntu comes with a binary installer. Or that you have noticed and you just can’t handle having to enter the root password to start installation of your binary (especially considering the fact that in ubuntu your user password is also your root password)? Gdeb is a binary installer, and damn easy to use, graphical too, it tells you what you’re about to install, if it needs to get any dependencies or not, and then it install your binary after you enter your root password.
@ 76 Kevin W. Good advice for 74 Sean who can’t hack it with Gdeb.
@ 77 Morris Brown. Just like 76 Kevin W, what the heck are you doing using your real name for an internet post on the net? Very insecure maneuver when you can rather post anonymously under an alias.
Anyway, these articles are not devoid of reality. Sure yes windows is limited. But your remark about how seniors have a hard time using windows is just like how a windows user will have a hard time using linux is inaccurate as all can be. Seniors don’t have as much computer experience as compared to people who’ve been using computers since at least the 90’s. So a senior who finds windows foreign is probably because it’s the first time they’ve used it, or that they rarely use it. Comparing a senior to an average windows user who uses windows on a normal basis is not going to have the same reaction as someone who has never used or hardly uses windows because they hardly use computers. An average windows user sees linux, and is either comfortable with it and sees the obvious similarities with windows and works from there to be productive in linux. Or, an average windows user sees the similarities linux has, tries to work with them, and at the first moment of dissatisfaction (such as the c:\ drive being /mnt/hda), they run moronically back to windows with a big hatred for linux.
@ 70 Bobby12. It’s very true that avid many don’t want to use linux because they know how to use what they have and they don’t need a change on the equipment they use. That’s all fine and dandy and should be what people do. But, as demonstrated from this thread, people are very very verrry afraid of using linux. It’s a roflmfao moment for me. Anyway, this article is not about linux playing catch up with windows or osx. It’s about debunking linux myths, which have been myths for at least 6 years or more. The fact that people say this debunking of linux myths is not true is just the ignorant users who wont rtfm or use google to learn about what they’re doing on a platform they’ve never used before.
@ 81 Duh. So true. This is yet again why i tell everyone that google is they’re friend. Since most everyone who surfs the web uses a search engine and that search engine is most likely google or similar yahoo search for finding stuff on the internet. It should be a no brainer for people to try to google or yahoo their problem on the internet to see if others have found solutions and what those solutions are. And if they don’t find anything on the first search attempt is when most users give up finding a solution. This is when most likely a more refined and more specific search parameters would eventually lead to the search engine results they’re looking for to solve the problem at hand they are having. Anyway, it’s insane how people may google their problem, but how even more insane people don’t refine and make more specific they’re search parameters.
@ 83 guru. Great post. It got me laughing pretty hard because your pesimism is great.
The only thing that’s a bad idea is that your idea of “easy” on linux is truly far from it. A windows user or osx user switching over to linux because they have to, or because they need to get some linux experience per say like for a job that requires the use of linux, then slackware is not what you need. Slackware for ultimate system tweaker, yes use slackware. Slackware for a server admin, yes use slackware. Why? It’s very stable and fast, and fits the mind set of the ultimate system tweaker. However installing software in slackware is a manual process, as in the user has to do it manually themselves and know where to put all the files and where to make other changes. And i’m of course talking about the normal way slackware folk install software and not through slapt-get. With ubuntu using apt for installing binaries is pure ease compared to slackware. So is mandrivas urpmi. The other thing is that new users can’t be limited by how few packages are in their distributions repository. Meaning that the more you offer in a repository, the better. Mandriva, debian, fedora, arch, and suse have a lot of stuff in their repositories. But, the most in any repository is debians with almost 20,000 packages. Which means with debian/ubuntu your most likely not left with having to find software that’s not in your repository such as with slackware. The next thing a new linux user needs to do is to scour the web for an installable binary after they’ve gotten use to the comfort and ease of repositories. Chances are that said new linux user will find a binary, but one that’s not compatible with their distro, or not even installable on their distro because they didn’t quite learn yet whether or not their distro takes rpm, tar.gz, or deb.
Advocating big repositories for new users.
Shamil. I am really amazed and surprised that you actually replied to so many people. My head hurts after reading 150+ comments over here and two other posts; and almost 400 comments over at digg.
It’s really amazing how strongly some people feel about their choice of operating system. I used to feel the same way about linux before and still feel quite strongly about it, but I also use vistaand OS X quite often, as stated on the article.
I think every OS has it’s strong sides and weaknesses, and instead of arguing and trying to prove one’s superiority over other; we should work together and improve the user experience in all of them. And let the user decide whats right for them.
Thanks everyone for comments and sorry about my poor English with some grammar and spelling mistakes. As some of the readers who knows me personally can tell you that English is actually my 5th language; and I only started seriously learning it about 6 years ago. So my apologies, I am trying to improve myself everyday. :)
Cheers,
pavs
Glad i can help. I was having a lot of fun. I know i seemed hostile to a point, but i know i was being constructive. Anyway, you have an awesome view of OS’s that seems to coincide with mine. Glad that there’s another person on the face of planet earth who knows that people should use what they’re used to, and not force anything upon others. It seems many got the wrong idea with this article as well as many who don’t know what they’re talking about.
Shamil –
“I don’t see how a straight up ubuntu install is difficult to use at all. ” Apparently you missed my first post at #19. My brand new Intel Quad Core with Intel Chipset and 4 gig of ram could not boot Hardy Heron. I went through the nice streamlined install wizard, which was quite nice, but when the time came to boot, it refused. It dropped me into some command window pre-boot loader thingy. Reinstalled it 4 times, got the same result every time. Downloaded the 32-bit version, burned an ISO and tried that — that wouldnt even install because of my 64-bit processor. Went to the Ubuntu site, read all the crap there, found nothing. Surfed the newsgroups for hours trying things, nothing worked. Finally I found an old post from 2006 suggesting I edit some boot config file and add the magic keyword “IRQPOLL” to the boot file entry. Ta dah! it magically worked. Stupid me for not thinking to put this random code word in the boot config all by myself. How was I not born with this knowledge?
So after spending more than 20 hours over a 3 week period I got the “straight up ubuntu install” that you speak of to finally boot.
Apparently you missed the humor in my name. I was all gung-ho about using it and then had the horrible experiences listed above. I’m sure I’m the only one that’s ever had problems with Linux though, so just blame me for being stupid. I am “reformed” because I no longer use it.
The stuff that worked worked quite well! Its a pretty interface. Unfortunately, silly me, wanted to visit web sites that use Flash. That was another multi-hour debacle that finally never worked. All command line stuff too.
Then I got to download my NVIDIA source code and compile it for my architecture. That was also a multi-hour process that did work eventually.
I have never had difficultly like that installing a Windows box EVER. I’ve used Linux in the past for command line computing (no GUI) and life was good when I needed it. If you try to get Linux to do the things Windows is good at (99% of what most users use computers for — web, e-mail, IM, video, content creation, photo scanning & editing, web cam, iTunes, etc.) you run into a headache after headache.
My previous experience with Slackware was to get PPoE emulation over a serial connection using Slirp and X-Windows so that I could run Netscape on my campus network. That was immensely more simple than what it took to get Ubuntu up and running, and that was 10 years ago. The novelty of compiling my own kernel has worn off though.
As far as my Mom’s computer, yes she has anti-virus and linksys firewall in place. “And why not do those tasks for free instead of paying over $70 for it? ” because for that $70 you speak of, she joins a community of milliions of people in the world that can help her, as well as just about everyone in our family. Call it lock in or whatever you want, but the dominant operating systems have a universal userbase that make the knowledge of supporting Windows ubiquitous.
The other thing that makes Windows great for her is that due to her long illness she is on the road to being disabled. Windows has many usability features built in for the disabled. If/when the time comes I know she can press the left shift key 5 times to turn on sticky keys. I know she can go into the Windows Theme and change it to large font / high contrast if her vision goes. I know the built-in text-to-speech emulation can help her read pages if necessary. I know that the built-in voice recognition can help her run the computer if necessary. If she needs help, she’s 3 clicks away from a help message showing up on my screen which includes a link for me to click on to remotely control her PC if she needs assistance. My $70 buys all of this and no headaches.
The end-user value proposition of Windows is insanely in favor of the consumer. Some toasters cost more than Windows, and all they do is toast bread. The value proposition of OSX is a little bit more difficult to calculate because the OS cannot be acquired without buying hardware with it.
“I said those who only use windows are never going to be power users.” — what a smug, baseless, elitist claim.
The thing I have been reserved about is my opinion about the Linux community fanboyism. You can never have a discussion like this one without two types of Linux fanboys popping up the “its always the user’s fault” people (wisdom above) and the “I’m better than you because I use Linux” people (Shamil).
The presumption of “busting” these Linux “myths” falls directly into these categories. These “myths” exist for a reason — because they are actual people’s experiences! Granted, they do not apply to everyone, but to categorically claim that these are pure falsehoods is rediculous, just read the posts above.
Smug comments like “Linux does not of course require 10 years from now to be ready for the desktop since it’s all good to go on the desktop as of 2 years ago.” Which desktop? Ubuntu? EEE-PC’s environment? Debian? Slackware? KDE or GNOME environments? Being “ready for the desktop” requires a consistent user experience and wide support, or else you are just building an embedded environment that can run a few desktop applications. The Linux ecosystem of different vendors and hardware makers is still in its infancy. I am guessing if I went to Best Buy and bought a digital camera or a scanner that it would take about 30 minutes to get it out of the box and running on a Windows or OSX machine. Who knows if it will even run on Linux? This is not Ubuntu’s fault, the ecosystem to make the Linux desktop viable for the masses just doesn’t exist yet.
Ubuntu is promising, but some of the most common things a user could want can result in a train wreck (my Ubuntu boot, Flash and NVIDIA drivers install examples for instance). When users experience things such as this on Windows, Apple sells another Mac. Personally, I’ve never experienced any of these things on Windows, but it would be silly to claim that too is a “busted” myth since its never happened to me.
If I wasn’t a technically minded individual I would have gone running back to Windows or to Steve Jobs to save me after experiencing any one of those 3 problems listed above. Instead, I have a triple boot box (Vista, XP and Ubuntu). I haven’t had the need or desire to boot into either XP or Ubuntu once my 64-bit Vista was installed.
100% of the problems that I have experienced on Windows in recent times (past 2 years) have been related to bad drivers. Vista 64-bit is rock-solid, if the drivers you need are avaialble. Fortunately the rate of 64-bit Vista adoption is starting to grow exponentially and the availability of drivers for 64-bit Vista is becoming commonplace. While the rate of Linux adoption has been growing as well, I do not see device manufacturers embracing this market.
“Linux has defined itself in mobile products as well as servers.” — absolutely. The moral of the story though is that the more user interface there is, the less suited Linux is to deal with it. I would be absolutely fine with it running in a pacemaker installed into my body (no UI). Linux makes great appliances. Dedicated workstations where everything is pre-configured for call centers is great too. Telephone servers, web servers, phones, etc. all good.
“On and on people will continue to be dumb because it’s fun for them, even when they get proven with the evidence right in front of them.” — OK, show me how to get my PC to boot without adding IRQPOLL to the boot config? I want you to tell me how me NOT knowing to do this makes me dumb?
“Try kubuntu, you’ll find it more familiar than gnome ubuntu, since straight up ubuntu wasn’t straight forward enough for you.” I’ve never complained about the user interface, I think its pretty. Unfortunately if what you need to do isn’t a part of Ubuntu you have to walk into command line and config file territory where things go awry. This is equivalent to making a normal Windows user edit the Windows registry — doing a bunch of cryptic stuff they don’t understand that can really screw everything up if they do it wrong. No user needs this.
I cannot say the same about Windows though!
Very true article. All myths. There more myths then just these 5.
@ 89 Reformed Ubuntu User. Why don’t you try not using ubuntu then? Ubuntu does not equal the whole of linux. There’s hundreds of different distributions out there. For a different start, try checking out mandriva, or opensuse. Mandriva is not ubuntu and may actually work on your setup. When one distribution of linux doesn’t work. Use another. When one doesn’t work, surely another will. I sitll think you didn’t try hard enough considering there’s such an easy alternative i talked about.
Anyway, linux is ready for the desktop in general. Quit being dumb and asking which desktop exactly. My answer is straightforward enough.
IDK about you, but flash and nvidia is easy to install from the repositories without compiling any of them from source.
Linux also has usability utilities for the disabled as well.
Reformed Ubuntu User. You’re still dumb, and haven’t rtfm quite yet either. You suffer from an extreme lack of knowledge about linux. Need i mention other distros. The fact that you haven’t tried another desktop oriented distro to get up and running says that even though you have the facts right in front of you, you’ll just get angry and spread fallacy.
After all, when one thing doesn’t work, try another.
I think today Linux is easier to install then Windows. In your example of Ubuntu you can boot into a Live CD session which you can try it out before you install Linux. You are also in a full working OS during the install not some crappy Windows loader.
I can also say your right about the CLI. Even in the classes I teach students find a GUI way to do something rather than typing commands in a window to perform root level admin work.
I think one of the other main problems is people coming from Windows are looking for something “like” windows. This seems to only happen to linux. I haven’t seen anyone wine about OS X being so different from Windows.
I think people that created Lindows help to continue this false impression. Linux is it’s own OS stop trying to compare it to Windows.
We were asked if a MONITOR is necessary when you’re using thin clients…
Now… how will you use a computer without the MONITOR????? (if you’re like… a domestic user)
that was simply hilarious.
When we offer workshops about Linux, people keep asking us why is it so much more EXPENSIVE than windows… and how much do they have to pay to download UBUNTU from any download site that offers it… LOL
Anyways… I translated this article and posted it on our site, it’s really nice.
We linked back, don’t worry.
http://solunix.com.br
(off topic)
I’ve read until the 50th comment to conclude this:
Linux is great (I use it without dual boot in both my laptop and desktop, also my family).
But it still needs a philosophical interest for a regular user, like myself, to get down to it.
I know what I’m saying, cos it’s been more than 2 years using it, and had enough headaches already.
Once you learn the meanings of packaging, hardware compatibility and else on Linux, than you start understanding it flosses better (they became no longer flosses for you, but only aspects that differ Linux from Windows).
Again, the philosophical issue is still important for a migration.
(In case of companies, the monetary issue is a stronger reason to migrate)
Ubuntu has a 6 month new release schedule which means that every 6 months you get the newest stuff from them. I upgrade every 6 months on my systems and i have never had ubuntu blow up on me. My NC8430 hp/compaq laptop has always installed fine when ive decided to run linux on it. Up until this most recent release the 3d acceleration didn’t really work out of the box, but 8.04 works just fine, wireless, bluetooth, and 3d acceleration are all fine. I have installed ubuntu on 2 desktops at home, both times the installation worked flawlessly.
The point of this post really is to just say, if ubuntu doesn’t work out of the box for you today, wait 6 months to the next release and try again. A nice feature is that you can also use the installer cd to see what will and will not work well for you.
Please, its ‘Amarok’ and not ‘amaroK’.
“You’re still dumb, and haven’t rtfm quite yet either.”
Nice, blame the user fanboy. Ubuntu is labeled as “The One” linux distro to rule the desktop, supposed to be the easiest so I started there. Show me where “IRQPOLL” is in your “rtfm” manual, because it certainly wasn’t on the Ubuntu boot help.
Also, there is no “one-click” install for 64-bit Flash. You have to go to the command line and edit some file with vi after you untar some tarball you download. You sound like you are the one lacking knowledge if you don’t know this.
“Need i mention other distros” - yes I did try other distros. If i recall correctly, I tried the live boot of PCLINUXOS and Sabayon. Sabayon had difficulty booting as on the 64-bit processor, and I chose not to use PCLINUXOS. I wanted Ubuntu because everybody says its so great and a friend was asking about it for use in their school. I guarantee you, I have shared my experiences with him. The boot CD was really nice. I would still use that, and I’d use Ubuntu on any system where everything is pre-installed. Getting it permanently installed on an environment can be a different experience. With the variety of hardware they have been given, I can’t imagine this won’t be an issue for them on at least one machine.
Again the NVIDIA drivers for 64-bit archetecture required them to be compiled. Do your homework before making your insulting and baseless accusations. You are the one claiming I know nothing about linux, however you do not know these things about running Flash and NVIDIA drivers on a 64-bit linux environment.
When people download this stuff, they expect it to work, your solution of “try another distro” is rediculous. If I called Ford because my car broke down they wouldn’t tell me “just drive your wife’s car instead”, or how about “go buy a honda see if that one starts for you”. Linux wants to act like it plays with the commercial operating systems, so it needs to act like one. I think Ubuntu is on this path.
This environment claims to be ready for “prime time” so its supposed to work. Nothing works for everybody, but somehow you claim this is my fault.
I must say your comments really reflect an unfortunately common attitude amongst the Linux community. “You’re still dumb” If Microsoft or Apple started blaming the user for every problem they would have no customers left.
“I’m sorry ma’am but you are an idiot for buying that brand of digital camera and expecting it to work with your Windows PC.” wouldn’t fly too well.
You are the face of the Linux community, and right now it looks immature and unprofessional.
“You suffer from an extreme lack of knowledge about linux.”
I wouldn’t call it “suffer”. I don’t need to be a mechanic to drive a car, and I don’t need to be a pilot to ride in an airplane, so why must I be a Linux engineer to get simple stuff working? People don’t want to deal with this crap.
I am guessing that the maturity of the 32-bit environment compares favorably to the 64-bit environment and that is the source of the headaches that I have encountered. The software issue is not Ubuntu’s fault, Adobe and NVIDIA probably aren’t making it easy, but unfortunately that becomes the user’s problem, a barrier to entry. As far as I can tell the IRQPOLL issue is years old…so why isn’t this part of the install?
This is excusable, as long as you don’t claim its ready for the masses yet. I tried the 32-bit install but it refused and told me I needed the 64-bit version of the OS. The 32-bit compatibility works for Windows (which is why XP will install), why doesn’t it work for Ubuntu?
@ 99 Reformed Ubuntu User. I see what your doing. You’re still being dumb. What you’re doing is choosing the most difficult to use processor architecture for linux. Are you guessing that the 32 bit environment compares to that of it’s 64 bit environment? No, because you’re an idiot. 64bit in linux is way different than 64 bit in windows. A good deal of everything in linux has been ported to 64 bit, but not all. That’s where your difficulty with 64 bit linux is coming from.
Obviously your comparison of 64 bit to the 32 bit linux is retarded. 32 bit is a heck of a lot better. Anyway, do what i said and try a different distro, and TRY A 32BIT ONE you doof. Don’t try sabayon, if you can’t get 64 bit up and running then you’re not ready for a source distro. Try mandriva. Just because ubuntu is labelled as the one to be the most popular and encompassing doesn’t mean you can’t try a different distribution. Linux is just fine for desktops. You’re stupid flaming troll. When you have difficulty with one computer with linux, try another, and more importantly don’t use 64 bit linux, try 32 bit, it has way better support. Run 64 bit linux if you want it as a server. Heck, something tells me that pclinuxos you downloaded is also 64 bit, and will have the similarity with your anger about how it’s not usable.
Here’s the lesson. Use 32 bit, maybe then you can use ubuntu, but try another distro just for the sake of it. And when people have difficulty and get scared of linux when they’re wrong and the evidence is right in front of them, they’ll just get angry and continue on with their skewed perception of non reality of spreading bs.
Reformed ubuntu user. When i googled “IRQPOLL” i got tons of results pertaining to “IRQPOLL” that were linux related. Reformed ubuntu user. RTFM, and i also said “google is your friend”. My how people don’t understand the google comment.
Hi Guys.
Lets try to refrain from name calling. Calling someone “Doof” & “Dumb” is not very helpful.
Thanks.
pavs
Your IRQPOLL comment is amusing! If I knew the “magic word” necessary to make everything work was IRQPOLL I could have easily googled it and figured it out. Try having the problem I had and then find that IRQPOLL is the solution.
“I see what your doing. You’re still being dumb. What you’re doing is choosing the most difficult to use processor architecture for linux.”
What I was going was putting linux on my brand new machine because my 5 year old AMD box is on its last leg. You have discovered my ploy! I spent $1200 on a new rig so I could prove that Linux sucks. You caught me!
Instead, I bought the best computer $1200 could buy at that moment in time, a Q9450 Intel Quad core with 4 gigs of ram and a 9xxx series NVIDIA card. Excuse me if I didn’t go out of my way to buy 2 year old hardware so that I could run Ubuntu 32-bit. I know Intel will emulate a 32-bit environment (which is how XP runs), why Linux isn’t taking advantage of this, I don’t know.
When downloading the 64-bit version there was no “hey it’s not quite prime-time” yet warning. I was told it was Ubuntu for 64-bit environment.
Again, you are not reading anything that I’m saying — I have no problem using Ubuntu after its configured (its actually quite nice), but getting it to that point was full of pitfalls.
“And when people have difficulty and get scared of linux when they’re wrong and the evidence is right in front of them, they’ll just get angry and continue on with their skewed perception of non reality of spreading bs.”
That is not the case at all. Installing it was a pain in the @ss. You are claiming that Linux is ready for the desktop, but then you throw on a million caveats “you’re an idiot if you are doing it with 64-bit”, “Don’t run sabayon”, “try a different one”. New linux users aren’t bestowed with this knowledge, you you blame them for doing things that normal people would do to install software.
Crawl back in your hole and keep telling yourself Linux is the end-all-be-all desktop solution for everyone. Its not. Good for some, but its not as easy as you sell it to be.
I have to disagree with #2.
The common conception is that the GUI is for ‘typical’ users. For those of us who were the first computer-savvy individuals in our families, it’s really easy to just think, “Typical user = my mother”. Anyway, the flip-side of that is that the command-line is for developers.
The thing that gets somewhat tossed on the wayside is the power-user- The person who likes to tweak settings on their box, but is not a developer, so writing bash scripts is pretty much out of the question. When it comes to linux, the typical user truthfully will probably not need to touch a command line (hopefully 3d acceleration, wi-fi, the scrolling column on the laptop touchpad, and sound work out-of-box- Ubuntu’s not quite perfect at that yet, but they’re good enough that the user has a decent shot at this). The developer probably installed linux because let’s face it, to a developer it’s like somewhat shipped them a few tons of equipment and said “Okay, go build your own amusement park”.
But that middle-ground person- That “power user” (I use the term loosely) is not going to see Linux as an improvement in the overall experience, because in Windows he could tweak everything he ever wanted to tweak using some tiny GUI utility or a setting in a module in control panel somewhere. There are checkboxes and dropdowns all carefully organized, with a little question mark icon you can use to explain things to you if you get lost. Those users, if they switch to linux, are going to be intimidated, because KDE and GNOME aren’t as advanced as Windows is as a GUI- What I mean by that, is that they aren’t as extensive at maintaining the illusion that you’re interacting directly with your system. It just FEELS like you’re interacting with a thin GUI that sits on top of your system, much like Windows 3.X did, back when it was just a DOS application. Things like tweaking mouse acceleration (that’s text-file config, which could be done in a text editor like KATE, but it’s still not the same as a slider bar), or restarting your internet connection (windows has a “repair” button you can click), or installing the latest drivers for your graphics card, these are things that Windows users are used to accomplishing without ever touching a command prompt. Running modprobe for the first time, or compiling the kernel for the first time, or setting up Grub for a dual-boot, those are scary things to do on a command line. It’s easy to get used to it with practice, yes, and I readily admit that aside from the compiling-the-kernel-to-add-features thing, a lot of those are cases where I prefer the linux method.
But this is about adoption. And really, even for non-developers, Linux is just more dependant on the command line than Windows is. That makes it legitimately scarier for a lot of people, who are justifiably afraid that using the command line to get something done that everyone tells them is possible, could go wrong and screw up their entire computer in such a way that it is beyond their skill level to repair. And until the GUI goes deeper, reasonable people who view their computer as an appliance instead of a way of life will try linux, decide it’s too scary to go beyond basic use, and head back to windows, and adoption will continue to bottleneck at the command line.
I forgot to mention- I’d vote that you change #2 to “plausible” :D
Alex,
You have summerized it quite well. There is not one situation with Windows that I can think of which requires me to go to the command line for any purpose. There may be a quicker / more efficient way doing it at the command line, but interaction with it is not required.
Also your comparison of linux’s GUI with Windows 3.1 on top of DOS hits the nail on the head as well. It really feels like the GUI was glued on to Linux, I am guessing that some distributions do this better than others, but there are still situations that can require the user to fall back to the command line as the only option for getting certain things done. This is scary territory for new users. Command line options can be intimidating, and commands like “chmod”, “sudo”, and “vi” which do not have any obvious meaning to their name are cumbersome. Crack on Microsoft all you want, but if you told me to open “Notepad” I would have the impression that I could write something with it. If you asked someone on the street what “vi” is, they would have no clue and not even be able to give you a hint about what it might do. Apple got it right calling their backup solution “Time Machine” — instantly the name tells you what it may do.
The “geek” heritage of Linux is the source of its strengths, but also one of the major things that is holding it back with cryptic command names coming from the Unix era. Apple is now the #1 Unix reseller in the world (even more than Sun!) because they figured out how to overcome this obstacle through design and marketing.
To add on to point number 5, Linux can even watch DVD from any region, with the use of DVDCSS decoder, although it is primarily discontinued due to legal issues. Nonetheless, it’s far better since it can watch region-free DVDs.
bben: you don’t even have to burn the iso image yourself if you order an CD for installing ubuntu (they are free) or buy a boxed set of some distro (e.g. openSUSE).
“Merkidemis
August 12th, 2008 14:40
I’m a software developer, and have been on computers for 20 years, and it still took me a week to get wireless working on my laptop under Linux. Don’t get me started on setting up a 3 monitor desktop with different sized screens.”
R U kidding me? wireless isn`working, ok. so who we need to blame? the os developers or freaking hardware manufacturers that refuse to write drivers for linux. (and you are calling your self a developer)…
oh this is goodone:
“bben
August 12th, 2008 14:43
File system? in windows C: D: etc easily understood and east to type. in linux /dev/hda and /dev/sdb. not so easy to figure out and not easy to type.”
ok, you are a noob! what is with letter a,b,c… wtf? if you hadn`t saw stupid icon that looks like hdd, you probably wouldn`t figure that out, but, haven`t you ever occure that hda is IDE disc and sda (scsi disc). yeah you are wright! c letter is much more understandable…
“Joe
August 12th, 2008 15:02
Myth #6: “But a Mac user will probably never use one in his lifetime.”
Nary a day goes by that I don’t open up a terminal in OS X to mess with something. Mac users aren’t all simpletons that can’t handle using the BSD underneath the glossy OS…
I think the arrogance of most Linux users is what scares non-geeks away from learning more about it!”
ok, I agree! there is a little bit of arrogance, that is just dumb!
“Hooty
August 13th, 2008 01:25
You don’t need VLC to play all the different types of media. Just use Linux Mint, it has all the codecs built in.
http://www.linuxmint.com”
the linux mint is a distro, so my question is, would you rather install vlc player or reinstall debian, fedora, opensuse… so you can install mint. sorry but your idea is just dumb!
“Bobby12
August 13th, 2008 00:17
Umm…people aren’t afraid to use Linux. People don’t want to use Linux.
That’s why nobody except a handful of people use it. People can do what they need to do on the OS they have.”
for your info most of people are dumb, when somebody that works in computer firm suggest someone (that doesn`t have experience) don`t take linux (he is for free) take Vista and pay me 400$, that somebody won`t waste his time to dig a little to see advantages and disadvantages of both OS`s, he would rather pay the prize as much as the “computer gay” said… so you tell me isn`t that stupid?
I can quote everyone, but it would take me for ever…
and one more thing: I AM NOT A LINUX geek, I USE MAC OSX LEOPARD 10.5.4 (BSD), AND I AM PROUD TO BE A APPLE USER!
BTW I apologize for my english, I know, my grammar suck… cheers!
@ the people with nVIDIA graphics / Samsung display problems
I use a Samsung 20″ widescreen cum GeForce 8400 combination, and I use it succesfully with Debian Lenny. Full widescreen resolution, hardware accel - the works.
Easy set-up? Not really. But it certainly wasn’t Debian’s fault alone*.
When I set it up I found that the problem sits first and foremost with nVIDIA driver installer’s incomplete sniffing of your system. First, the installer tries to download non-existant stuff from nVIDIAs site. It then tells you that you need an entire kernel source tree before you can continue - which is not true, you only need the “linux-headers” package for your running kernel. Finally it warns that it can’t install if you run a version of the compiler suite that is more recent than the one that was used to compile your kernel - again not true.
It would all be a breeze if nVIDIA got their act together and provided correct step-by-step instructions, as well as an installer that didn’t pop-up FUD warnings.
Remember - nVIDIA took your money for that card, not your Linux distro. So don’t direct your complaints at Linux distros when nVIDIA gives you flaky installers.
*OK, so here Debian gets its share:
The Debian sys-installer should really advise people to install the compiler suite and the “kernel headers” package, even if they don’t intend to do devel. Joe or Jane User may never need to touch the devel tools ever, but there are situations where things can be sped up considerably if you have them on your system. Like when an installer for a kernel module needs to invoke a compiler.
The install of the nVIDIA driver complete with automagical compilation of a kernel module and a pretty decent auto-configuration of your display takes about 1 minute IF all the necessary bits are on your box, and if you know which messages from the installer are crud.
Extra bonus for Samsung users: you don’t need to fight with something like the crashy browser bolt-on that Samsung peddles as a settings util for their displays under Vista. The nVIDIA util under (Debian | Ubuntu) gives you control over your LCD to an extent that will scare your pants off :-)
1. No more difficult than the DOS string text in the days of Edlin.
2. Never would have occurred to me
3. Sometimes, but overall the Linux OS (various repositories) is a much smarter easy install.
4. Well, I work in entertainment and will find my confinement to the mainstream is necessary, so even for me wine wouldn’t do it.
5. My Zencast doesn’t jockey up with Ubuntu, still that doesn’t deter my music subscription listening.
Some of the anti-Linux comments are hilarious.
“C: and D: (the drive letters scheme from Windows) are easier to understand than /dev/sda and /dev/scd!”
Firstly, there are few reasons for anyone to need to know the device file name. A few programs still aren’t HAL aware though.
Secondly, C: gives no description of what it is. Neither does D:. How would a Windows newbie know what D: is? However, on Linux you do often see /dev/dvd, which is of course the DVD drive. Even /dev/sdb1 makes sense and is descriptive; the S stands for SATA, the D stands for Disk, B because it’s the 2nd hard disk (and B is the second letter of the alphabet), and 1 because it’s the first partition.
You’re not likely to confuse /dev/sdb1 for the second partition on a USB-connected CD-ROM drive, are you? But on Windows, E:\ could be anything.
Wow, this is a lot of hate coming from people who are used to Windows or MacOS, but not used to Linux and so think it is “hard.” Well, Windows was “hard” before you ever used it too. The truth is, all of the above will give you problems on occasion (a Mac OS install disk once ate my hard drive; Vista still has flaky drivers and runs like a snail; and, yes, Broadcom drivers are often still a bear to get working in Linux). Computers are not toasters — you actually have to do some studying to make them work.
The other truth is that, for a lot of people, each of the above will work near-flawlessly from Day 1 right out of the box. Personally, I’ve had a good deal of trouble over the years with Windows, and less with MacOS and Linux. So at the moment, I’ve got a Linux laptop and two Linux desktops, all from different manufacturers, running different versions of Ubuntu or Debian, and all working perfectly from the moment Linux was installed — sound, printing, networking, you name it. Linux has become my go-to OS. But I’ll use the others (and even Unix) on occasion.
I help people with software and hardware problems for a living, so I don’t have the luxury of sitting in a box sniping about other OSes. At times I need to make each one work … so I learn the different systems inside and out and make them all function as intended. What’s so awful about that? It’s sure easier than sitting here bitching and moaning about other OSes you don’t understand well.
I just wanted to respond to what someone said about filenames, that windows is clear in what the filetypes are because of the filename extension.
Since most desktop environments in GNU/Linux doesn’t care about the filename extension you can go along just fine calling your text files sometext.txt and calling all your images image.jpg.
But if someone for some reason renames an iso image of a DVD to .txt then you will still see that it’s not a textfile both because of the icon and if you right-click it and choose properties where you can read its description.
Yes the OS does know, but it shares what it knows.
(and if you are in a shell you can use the ‘file’ command to see what type a file is)
There is a story on Slashdot today titled ‘Why Is Adobe Flash On Linux Still Broken?’ It looks like ‘reformed ubuntu’ isnt the only one having problems with Adobe Flash on Linux. shamil was a bit hard on the guy - everything he described was part of his experience with Linux, good or bad, and ridiculing it isn’t going to do anything to win over new Linux users.
For me i need stuff like this to work reliably before i would make the jump. I’ll try it in a few years when there are fewer stories like this one.
You should add “impossible to get wireless working”.
I suppose it’s not really impossible, but I spent a lot of time trying to use ndiswrapper make a windows wireless driver work. Everything else regarding linux was ideal for that particular instance, and far exceeded Windows, but since I couldn’t make wireless work, it’s worthless.
It is true that Linux has support for movies but its not out of the box support. And sometimes its hard to make it work, I’ve tried to make work with my 64bit Ubuntu and it was a lot of hassle end users want t something just works, not something they have to spend hours figuring out how to make it works.
“Davo
August 15th, 2008 13:14
Wow, this is a lot of hate coming from people who are used to Windows or MacOS, but not used to Linux and so think it is “hard.” Well, Windows was “hard” before you ever used it too. The truth is, all of the above will give you problems on occasion (a Mac OS install disk once ate my hard drive; Vista still has flaky drivers and runs like a snail; and, yes, Broadcom drivers are often still a bear to get working in Linux). Computers are not toasters — you actually have to do some studying to make them work.”
lots of hate? are you high? there is no hate coming from OSX users. I read before that one user only commented on one post about terminal, and I think he is right. you can`t post some BS like OSX users does not use terminal. that`s just stupid… there is no day that I am not using terminal for bunch of things… and about this:”a Mac OSX install disk once ate my hard drive” ate your hard drive??? tell me something are you sure you know how to turn on computer? I installed OSX about million times of 10.4 tiger, 10.5 leopard, 10.6 snow leopard developers preview without any difficulties or should I say trouble. sorry mate but I don`t believe your story…
all the myths were busted the first time i installed Linux .. it just worked .. out of the box
yeah u need to have supported hardware .. but wait a minute that is same for all operating system right? i cant count how many times an xp install has failed without even starting .. just because it cant detect the hard drive of the computer .. even vista doesn’t work on all hardware .. and tell me what causes BSOD .. last time i checked it was incompatible hardware .. the fact that the installation of Linux is easy does not mean it would install on hardware that were not meant for it .. yet 90% of the time it just works .. what is sad about windows is that ..100% of hardware were made for windows and no hardware (except the new umpcs shipping Linux) was made for Linux .. yet Linux just works out of the box on 90% of windows capable hardware … windows cant even boast to work out of the box on 10% of windows capable hardware ..
most times while installing Linux .. i can still get to use my computer because installation is done on a live environments so i can be surfing the net ,edit my documents or watch a movie while installing Linux on the same pc .. try that with windows
beside how do u know if your computer is compatible with windows .. u have to install it right? wrong .. that only works with windows.. on Linux .. just pop in the live cd and its boots so u see if the computer would work on Linux .. and if not what doesn’t work soo u can change your mind ..
on installation .. i find it way easier to install things on Linux.. cus most come with package managers .. all i do is search for what i need .. check it apply .. done .. there are few instances were i have to go outside the package manager for what i need .. but those are very few .. and i can always get them from 3rd party repositories or sites like http://www.getdeb .net .. i dont have to compile anything
on a whole linux is a matured OS that is easy to use and maintain and be productive with just like windows …
Well…
You could burn a Windows live CD made with BartPE or one of the other tools that creates Windows live CDs if you would like to see your hardware work with Windows.
“all the myths were busted the first time i installed Linux .. it just worked” - You cannot disprove anything if the problems don’t manifest themselves in 1 test case. It is very easy to prove something exists (it HAPPENS), but because something doesn’t happen to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t for anyone. You were lucky. I’m guessing linux works more often than not, especially if you are experienced in it.
So in the spirit of “”all the myths were busted the first time i installed Linux .. it just worked”", I have experienced none of the Windows myths you mention, so they must not exist…right?
The more I use Linux, the more I like it. At first, it was very annoying - the Broadcom wireless hassles, the frustration of having to search forums or wait for replies to find out how to do something - the bugs in Ubuntu, the ugly, utterly chaottic Novell support website/forums, and on and on.
But as I found better distros (I’m using Linux Mint 5 and like it very much), my frustration diminished. I don’t know the command line worth beans, but I love what I’ve seen - it takes me back to the days of DOS where you could get stuff done really, really intelligently and fast.
My view? We lost a LOT when Windows came along. I compare Linux to WordStar - the last true word processor for DOS/Windows. The Linux command line is wonderful because it gives you power and speed. I’m hoping those will always be options for Linux users, that we’ll still have apps like Vim with a steep, steep learning curve that allow you to do powerful stuff. You don’t know what it would mean to a professional word-cruncher to have a real word processor app again - not a Word-clone like OpenOffice, but a professional’s word-churning tool.
I like that feel of control and speed. It makes it worth the time and effort to learn more about the command line.
Amusing things on the comments:
“But a Mac user will probably never use one in his lifetime.” becomes “No Mac user has or will ever use it.” on some people’s total lack of text interpretation. Don’t they teach that in school?
“Burn a ISO image is hard to figure” wait, the person is going burn the iso image to install linux, so the OS the person is going to use to burn it is likely not Linux, therefore this claims on windows or mac, it’ll be hell before before the person knows how to burn an ISO image
“I can’t install with one click” if you downloaded a .deb or .rpm, yes you can, on a .bin or .sh, the only difference is you have to right-click and choose “run on terminal” tar.gz you have to uncompress it, which is no different than windows programs distributed as zip files
“I can’t use my iPod on it” if your MP3 player doesn’t allow you to interact with about any OS you come up with, unlike about any other MP3 player on the market, I think it’s not the os you should be blaming (besides I don’t have, nor do I ever intend in having apple’s DRM monstrousities but I heard you can use some native linux software to do it instead)
I used to use linux (ubuntu), but i got a new laptop and now X doesn’t work (well, only in VESA mode, but with a widescreen laptop that’s quite annoying)
so I’m back to windows, sometimes trying a new version of any distro and see if the compatibility is fixed
If you can’t handle tweaking your system, go be a pathetic noob in the loser corner with windows. Mac OS X aint that much better. I’m just a kid, and i have never had an issue w/ keeping linux working, and installing it.
You guys are CHALLENGED.
“I’m just a kid, and i have never had an issue w/ keeping linux working, and installing it.”
As a kid, you have all the time in the world to tinker and debug and try things and search forums, etc. I did this when I was young as well. In my mid-30s, finding time to tinker is a luxury between commuting and jobs and family. I miss the days that I used to spend tinkering with things, however in the “real world” (i use that term loosely), there is no time for tinkering. I need the “it just works” factor of Windows or OS X. It is sad, I know, but that is how life works when you get responsibility. I hate it too.
As “just a kid”, you can accomplish some pretty grand things because you do not have the same time pressures that you will have when you get older. Its all about time. I’m sure I could get an old Commodore 64 to do my web surfing and connect to a wireless network to send e-mail, but I simply don’t have the time and the benefit isn’t compelling enough other than the geek factor.
Adopting Linux is simply too time consuming when people already have usable skills in other popular environments. Everyone touts the “Linux is free!” (as in beer) aspect vs. Windows, but again, adults tend to value time > money. If having a fully working Vista computer costs a lot of money, but little time (vs. Linux, little money, lots of time for new skills), most will pay for Windows and get it over with. The exception to this is people who have more time than money (youth typically), or people who enjoy spending their time learning these types of things (elevated value of time).
Its all about time.
The iPod support is all Apples fault anyway, I am pleased with how well it works considering there was no help from Apple. This is why I don’t use iPods.
I’ve had Ubuntu for a month. I’d like to RATIONALLY make some corrections broadly across the board. These are just a few things I’ve noticed people ranting and getting worked up over, that simply there is no reason to grow angry or insulting about.
1. Linux is NOT more difficult than Windows to use, but if you use Windows your whole life (like I did), it DOES take some getting used to. It’s like taking an American who’s NEVER seen chopsticks to a Japanese restaurant. Chopsticks are just as easy to use as a fork, but only if you’ve been using them your whole life (trust me it’s true).
2. Linux is easy to install. Burning an image isn’t necessary if you’re not willing to learn how to do it (which can easily be found how on the ubuntu forums or by searching google: ubuntu burn iso).
3. There is no professional tech support, but then again the same can be said about Windows. I’ve actually heard many times that some of my less computer savvy friends were given incorrect WINDOWS information from MICROSOFT. I’ve actually had a friend delete all drivers as told to him by a Microsoft employee. This is far from professional. On a side note, as a Linux beginner, I find that if I have a question, like “What good CSS editors are usable in my distro, Ubuntu?” I can type in google: Ubuntu css editor, which by the way turned me on to CSSed Editor.
4. Sure some games don’t work on Ubuntu, a lot of Windows programs don’t, but in most cases a Linux version replaces it. On the chance you DO want your Windows only programs or Windows only games, you can dual-boot natively. In fact you can take am Ubuntu install to your Windows computer, and it will set up dual-booting just as easily as installing a program in Windows. Next next option option install. It’s all very simple and easy.
5. Linux is not only fairly simple to learn (for people trying to learn rather than find things wrong with it), but it’s also very secure. You can’t accidentally get a virus in Linux. Make a virus for Windows and you’ll kill Nasa, but Linux is nearly 100% immune. Every time there is a security “glitch” in Linux, it strikes 0 people, then gets fixed by the next day. I download files from the internet all the time, and I don’t even bother to put anti-virus on my computer. Download an anti-rootkit or a worm tracker (That ISN’T norton or McAfee), I bet most Windows users are virused and don’t know it. In fact I’ve done work as a network analyst, and I find that 9 out of 10 business computers have a virus that can completely ruin their machine, do you know if you’re safe? I know I am.
6. The command prompt (to me) is a daily use tool. I pop that thing open all the time, I love to do so. sudo apt-get install is the best command in the world. I’ll find the NAME of a program I want: sudo apt-get install [Enter], my password [Enter]. Now not only does it download the program, all files needed to run the program, and set the program up, but it also adds it to an appropriate folder in my panel (Think Start Menu and Task Bar for Windows).
7. Linux and Windows are neither better. Windows IS easier in some cases than Linux, but learning a few extra steps that aren’t always even needed is worth the power and safety of a system that won’t get viruses or be affected by cookies. In fact, Linux and Windows even look similar. I have a “start menu”, a taskbar, a “recycle bin”. I have a good browser (firefox) which comes with my install. I run a messenger (pidgin), which allows me to connect to all my messengers without any installation, just putting in my account name and password for each, and it will fill in my buddy list for me. I have RSS feeds to keep me updated, and .torrent downloaders for p2p installs. I have my clock/calender just like Windows, except that instead the Month, Date and Time are all posted instead of just time. I ALSO have four desktops (less or more if I want). I can switch easily between them for multi-tasking or to simply get something out of my way. I have a folder called “Home” which is like the c:/ for Windows. All the programs I want to manually install (including my MMOs) usually go in there. From there I make an icon on my desktop for easy launching, and pick the icon for the shortcut. If I ever have a question, I can pop into the IRC chat room (which is NEVER empty, and ALWAYS has people answering questions quickly and accurately), much faster than Microsoft answers questions, and it never charges money. And just like Windows, I can Shut Down, Hibernate, Restart, Log out, Switch users, or just let my screensaver kick in when I am done with the machine.
I guess all of what I am saying is this. If you want to use Windows, then by all means use Windows. If you like Linux, use it and enjoy it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and mine is simply that I enjoy my operating system. I enjoy what I use, and you will likely enjoy what you use. But within my first month of running Linux, I’ve already gained the knowledge needed to write a howto on installing a Windows program in Ubuntu that has gained me three thank you e-mails this week alone, how hard can Linux be if a newbie can write a howto for the people who simply don’t want to learn how to do things themselves, but find someone who can just tell them?
In Windows if it doesn’t work, you make a phone call, if it doesn’t work in Linux, then it just needs one more step yet. See? Both get a resolution, and both are good for getting things to work, except I can’t imagine who I’d call for some of the things I need working in Linux, but I know I don’t pay for the things I use in Linux.
I find installation is still annoying. Linux has too many places for applications to hide their files, so unless you use only one package manager, and restrict yourself to that one, you do end up with stuff all over the place.
I’m thinking GoboLinux will improve on this a lot [To uninstall something, you just delete its folder], but I can’t get the LiveCD to run. :(
And this one guy thought I was running Windows. Even after I showed him Compiz, I dunno if he believed me. It was funny, though.
I installed Ubuntu Hardy because I was too poor at the time to buy Windows XP (Desktop machine at home, Core2Duo, 2Gb ram, Intel on board graphics). I downloaded the ISO, burned it to disc and installed Ubuntu in about thirty minutes. There were a few issues in the beginning, since I had not played with Linux for about five years. Linux has come a long way since then! The only beef that I had is that my new printer (HP, since I did some research and found out that they have good linux support) didn’t work reliably. I just could not make it print anything. I figured that it was too new and Linux would catch up, as that has been my experience in the past.
Well, Ubuntu Intrepid became available. Upgraded via Update Manager (GUI, didn’t touch the command line). I upgraded to Intrepid over the internet, which took about three hours. During those entire three hours, I surfed the internet and watched a movie in VLC, including during the install process! It just ground away in the background with no loss of performance whatsoever!
Then a single reboot and I was running Intrepid! Unbelievable stuff! And guess what? My printer worked right away, and has been reliable ever since. I have decided that I love Linux! Even though it took a little while to figure out. And I love the command line!!
I still like XP. My Asus EeePC came with XP preloaded and I don’t feel the need to change it over. Maybe one day. My priority is to get work done. I’m not a power user or a graphic artist or a developer. I just want to get my work done, and Ubuntu does it famously. So does XP. But I’m glad I didn’t have enough money to buy XP that day! My horizons have broadened, which makes me happy!
I personally believe that Linux has a lot of potential, however as it was aptly stated in previous posts, it just takes up way too much time to get devices and apps configured. I tried all of the most prolific distros in dual-boot as well as stand alone setups and find it cryptic when it comes to knowing all the commands, etc. I detest the fact that I have to use the terminal so much. Also, my printer does have no PPD drivers, so that I could print. Most good apps written for Windows would not run under Wine, let alone the games, which I could care less about. After learning some basic Linux commands and having poked enough around various hardware configuration, I am back to Windows XP, and not because Linux is bad, but mainly due to the fact that I don’t need to spend countless hours visiting forums and trying to find solutions to various install problems. My XP works right out of the box, sorry Linux. Maybe someday..
Hi all,
Before I go on, let me state that my friends consider me a Windows expert or guru. I have been using Windows since its inception at till the current XP/Vista.
Well I guess the myths that have been busted existed about 10 years ago. Due to curiosity, I dabbled in Linux way before a lot of you heard about Linux.
At that time, the only friendly installer was on Mandrake (now Mandriva), which I used and enjoyed. It was the first “one-click” GUI installer. Now, we are spoilt for choice as almost all distros come with a click and go installer, and some even have live-cds to run without worrying about screwing something up.
However many points brought up by users regarding Linux’s “difficulty” and “complicated CLI” and etc actually existed even in the days of Windows (Who remembers Win 3.0 running in DOS?? ) Hardware installation was a nightmare. I remember even my CD-ROM required a specialised driver on Win3.11.
Anyway, back to what I wanted to say, the bulk of the complaints against Linux are from Windows users. This is because they have become accustomed to doing things in one way only which is the “windows” way. Any other way of achieving it is considered “difficult” due to “unfamiliarity” when in actual fact may be an easier solution in reality. ITs just different, not difficult.
What I am trying to say is this, Windows users, please be flexible and give Linux a try, you will realise it is not so difficult after all and maybe even discover the joys of using it. I certainly did.
Hi all,
Before I go on, let me state that my friends consider me a Windows expert or guru. I have been using Windows since its inception at till the current XP/Vista.
Well I guess the myths that have been busted existed about 10 years ago. Due to curiosity, I dabbled in Linux way before a lot of you heard about Linux.
At that time, the only friendly installer was on Mandrake (now Mandriva), which I used and enjoyed. It was the first “one-click” GUI installer. Now, we are spoilt for choice as almost all distros come with a click and go installer, and some even have live-cds to run without worrying about screwing something up.
However many points brought up by users regarding Linux’s “difficulty” and “complicated CLI” and etc actually existed even in the days of Windows (Who remembers Win 3.0 running in DOS?? ) Hardware installation was a nightmare. I remember even my CD-ROM required a specialised driver on Win3.11.
Anyway, back to what I wanted to say, the bulk of the complaints against Linux are from Windows users. This is because they have become accustomed to doing things in one way only which is the “windows” way. Any other way of achieving it is considered “difficult” due to “unfamiliarity” when in actual fact may be an easier solution in reality. ITs just different, not difficult.
Another thing is this, Windows users, instead of being so fixated on running Windows apps in Linux and blaming Wine for all the failures, perhaps you should try other made for Linux apps. VLC is way better than media player, Amarok and XMMS are good music player replacements for Winamp. Picasa is available for Linux, OpenOffice is a great replacement for MSOffice, Digikam for digital camera users, the list goes on and on. Perhaps one needs to reprogram hemselves to do things differently instead of blaming the OS.
What I am trying to say is this, Windows users, please be flexible and give Linux a try, you will realise it is not so difficult after all and maybe even discover the joys of using it. I certainly did.
I noticed that many people still think it is difficult to install linux on a computer. But these people have not actually installed windows on a computer either and to be fair, it is much easier to install linux and its improving with leaps and bounds. A possible fix for this would be having linux preinstalled on computers and allowing people to buy it as such. This would solve various driver problems that the user has to worry about. I recently installed xp on a computer and it has taken 2 or three days to find the proper intel drivers, as there is little documentation about the exact model and hardware specifications. Just out of curiousity, i booted up ubuntu 8.04 (i havent made a 8.10 disk) and it worked first thing, it even recognized the wireless adapter which was great because this allowed for a proprietary video card driver and bam, effects that windows can only dream about were running in 15 minutes. Windows is alright but linux is steadily improving and changing due to its open source nature. Go with linux.